AB squad for the Rugby Championship
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@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
one of those guys that was an absolute superstar at super level - but never quite made it at test level.
I always thought his natural position would have been at centre.. there was some talk of putting him there for Waikato after he got dropped for 2011!
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@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
one of those guys that was an absolute superstar at super level - but never quite made it at test level.
I always thought his natural position would have been at centre.. there was some talk of putting him there for Waikato after he got dropped for 2011!
@WillieTheWaiter agree with the first paragraph.
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Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
@TeWaio said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
he didn't get player of the year in '11 cause it was skewed by the final.. he had an absolute mozza in that game - possum in headlights stuff. Don't blame him tho to be honest the pressure would have been intense!
how long was it after '03 before he came back... was a good wee while... I remember being at The Church the day after that baa baa's match yarning to Marty and he came over gonig YOU AND ME BRO WE'LL BE STARTING NEXT YEAR WOOO...
i'm standing there thinking errrrm yeh nahhhhh... mccaw got that 7 jersey locked up methinks.. Kaino was a skinny young fulla then! -
@TeWaio said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
he didn't get player of the year in '11 cause it was skewed by the final.. he had an absolute mozza in that game - possum in headlights stuff. Don't blame him tho to be honest the pressure would have been intense!
how long was it after '03 before he came back... was a good wee while... I remember being at The Church the day after that baa baa's match yarning to Marty and he came over gonig YOU AND ME BRO WE'LL BE STARTING NEXT YEAR WOOO...
i'm standing there thinking errrrm yeh nahhhhh... mccaw got that 7 jersey locked up methinks.. Kaino was a skinny young fulla then!@WillieTheWaiter if you recall we saw Kaino in the NZ age group team that won the RWC a year or so prior to that and he was even skinnier...
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Kaino's debut AB game v Baabaas was end of year Tour 2004.
He then made his test debut vs Ireland in 2006 (June) but was poor.
In 2008 he made the ABs regularly. He got mucked around a bit in 2008 by initially playing 8 (I recall a Bledisloe where he was at 8 and Rodders was at 6) before settling into 6.
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Kaino's debut AB game v Baabaas was end of year Tour 2004.
He then made his test debut vs Ireland in 2006 (June) but was poor.
In 2008 he made the ABs regularly. He got mucked around a bit in 2008 by initially playing 8 (I recall a Bledisloe where he was at 8 and Rodders was at 6) before settling into 6.
@KiwiMurph said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Kaino's debut AB game v Baabaas was end of year Tour 2004.
He then made his test debut vs Ireland in 2006 (June) but was poor.
In 2008 he made the ABs regularly. He got mucked around a bit in 2008 by initially playing 8 (I recall a Bledisloe where he was at 8 and Rodders was at 6) before settling into 6.
Just goes to show that some guys need time.
Also, some forget that we did have a lot of experimenting, swapping and trying different guys/combos during a period we were quite successful.
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On Messam, I was a fan and thought we didn’t miss a beat when he got his chance to permanently play blindside after Kaino went overseas. He was a bit hit and miss before that, but he was definitely test standard in the couple of seasons following the 2011 RWC.
Also in the Messam to centre camp
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On Messam, I was a fan and thought we didn’t miss a beat when he got his chance to permanently play blindside after Kaino went overseas. He was a bit hit and miss before that, but he was definitely test standard in the couple of seasons following the 2011 RWC.
Also in the Messam to centre camp
@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
On Messam, I was a fan and thought we didn’t miss a beat when he got his chance to permanently play blindside after Kaino went overseas. He was a bit hit and miss before that, but he was definitely test standard in the couple of seasons following the 2011 RWC.
Also in the Messam to centre camp
that year Mess started at 6 for the ABs he was awesome. A few memories not quite lining up with the reality there. I guess first impressions really do stick.
I am an unashamed fan though. He's a deadset chiefs legend.
But to downplay his contribution to the All Blacks when he was needed is hugely unfair. He wasn't Kaino (but then who is?) but he was a mile in front of every option available now.
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@Nepia said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@broughie If Messam was around now we wouldn’t be having a 6 debate.
Messam became one of my favourite Ab's over the course of his career. After thinking he was a useless seagull early on.
Turned into a real hardman in the pack, the Saffa's really respected him for this. Which says a lot.
I want a bully at 6.... a shame Akira can't motivate himself to get fit because he could be that guy. Frizzell and Fifita are too loose, Jacobson has potential (love how hard he hits in the tackle). Papalii also has potential (but plays too much like a headless chook at this stage)
Whetu Douglas could do the job I reckon until one of the aforementioned are ready to step up.
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In the current situation, I’ve got this feeling they might start Scott Barrett at 6 , at least we won’t be lacking in grunt early against the more physical packs,
And a rampaging ardie to enter around halftime for one of the 3.
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In the current situation, I’ve got this feeling they might start Scott Barrett at 6 , at least we won’t be lacking in grunt early against the more physical packs,
And a rampaging ardie to enter around halftime for one of the 3.
@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
In the current situation, I’ve got this feeling they might start Scott Barrett at 6 , at least we won’t be lacking in grunt early against the more physical packs,
Unlikely now that BBBR is injured, unless they are confident in either Tuipulotu or Hemopo starting at lock.
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@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
In the current situation, I’ve got this feeling they might start Scott Barrett at 6 , at least we won’t be lacking in grunt early against the more physical packs,
Unlikely now that BBBR is injured, unless they are confident in either Tuipulotu or Hemopo starting at lock.
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
In the current situation, I’ve got this feeling they might start Scott Barrett at 6 , at least we won’t be lacking in grunt early against the more physical packs,
Unlikely now that BBBR is injured, unless they are confident in either Tuipulotu or Hemopo starting at lock.
Let’s hope he makes it back for the WC,
I reckon this option might be good early when the teams are generally playing tight and low risk, our set piece would be very strong .
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@WillieTheWaiter if you recall we saw Kaino in the NZ age group team that won the RWC a year or so prior to that and he was even skinnier...
@taniwharugby said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@WillieTheWaiter if you recall we saw Kaino in the NZ age group team that won the RWC a year or so prior to that and he was even skinnier...
too far back to recall, memory very hazy... just remember sammy T, and the awesome haka they busted out.. and that Kirwan missed it cause we sent him to get beers. ha!
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@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
In the current situation, I’ve got this feeling they might start Scott Barrett at 6 , at least we won’t be lacking in grunt early against the more physical packs,
Unlikely now that BBBR is injured, unless they are confident in either Tuipulotu or Hemopo starting at lock.
Let’s hope he makes it back for the WC,
I reckon this option might be good early when the teams are generally playing tight and low risk, our set piece would be very strong .
@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
In the current situation, I’ve got this feeling they might start Scott Barrett at 6 , at least we won’t be lacking in grunt early against the more physical packs,
Unlikely now that BBBR is injured, unless they are confident in either Tuipulotu or Hemopo starting at lock.
Let’s hope he makes it back for the WC,
I reckon this option might be good early when the teams are generally playing tight and low risk, our set piece would be very strong .
As opposed to when the finals roll around and they start playing baabaas style?
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@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
In the current situation, I’ve got this feeling they might start Scott Barrett at 6 , at least we won’t be lacking in grunt early against the more physical packs,
Unlikely now that BBBR is injured, unless they are confident in either Tuipulotu or Hemopo starting at lock.
Let’s hope he makes it back for the WC,
I reckon this option might be good early when the teams are generally playing tight and low risk, our set piece would be very strong .
As opposed to when the finals roll around and they start playing baabaas style?
@Bones I meant early in the game, not early in the tournament:)
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@taniwharugby said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@WillieTheWaiter if you recall we saw Kaino in the NZ age group team that won the RWC a year or so prior to that and he was even skinnier...
too far back to recall, memory very hazy... just remember sammy T, and the awesome haka they busted out.. and that Kirwan missed it cause we sent him to get beers. ha!
@WillieTheWaiter you recall giving Mark Gerrard shit during the game and then realising he was a unit when you saw him after the game hoping he didnt recognise you haha
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@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
At the presser yesterday Hansen was asked again about Read at 6. He just smiled and said they had a plan for the no.6 jersey while not giving anything away. Cryptic.
SBW to 6! Should have happened years ago.
@pukunui said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
At the presser yesterday Hansen was asked again about Read at 6. He just smiled and said they had a plan for the no.6 jersey while not giving anything away. Cryptic.
SBW to 6! Should have happened years ago.
Way too slow
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@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
Overall I agree, but he had a couple of games against the Boks where he was very good indeed.
