2020 All Blacks Squad
-
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@gt12 Yeah - it's one of the problems with our two play-maker system. Offensively it's good, but defensively it creates weaknesses.
If you've got a strong defender at fullback, you can move him forward to defend in the first five channel and stick your first five at the back - but if you've got Richie, Beauden (or DMac) there's only marginal gains from shuffling them around.
Sorry who has ever been a strong defender at FB? Not front on anyway. BB is awesome on defence, chasing back, and that is a FB main role. But front on one-on-one, there never has been a great defender in the ABs or most other teams.
@Machpants said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@gt12 Yeah - it's one of the problems with our two play-maker system. Offensively it's good, but defensively it creates weaknesses.
If you've got a strong defender at fullback, you can move him forward to defend in the first five channel and stick your first five at the back - but if you've got Richie, Beauden (or DMac) there's only marginal gains from shuffling them around.
Sorry who has ever been a strong defender at FB? Not front on anyway. BB is awesome on defence, chasing back, and that is a FB main role. But front on one-on-one, there never has been a great defender in the ABs or most other teams.
David Havili. The Crusaders often use him to cover for Richie.
-
@Machpants said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@gt12 Yeah - it's one of the problems with our two play-maker system. Offensively it's good, but defensively it creates weaknesses.
If you've got a strong defender at fullback, you can move him forward to defend in the first five channel and stick your first five at the back - but if you've got Richie, Beauden (or DMac) there's only marginal gains from shuffling them around.
Sorry who has ever been a strong defender at FB? Not front on anyway. BB is awesome on defence, chasing back, and that is a FB main role. But front on one-on-one, there never has been a great defender in the ABs or most other teams.
David Havili. The Crusaders often use him to cover for Richie.
-
@Chris-B Better defender than Richie is not necessarily great defender. BB is better, by a margin
@Machpants We'll differ on that one.
How about Jordie then? Lots of people seem to think his future is in the midfield - it won't be if he's a poor defender.
-
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
I think there’s some truth in this, and we let Tuilagi and the other backs get too much room all day. I think much of that is due to our defensive system, which was very passive, so we made our tackles (mostly) but also gave up ground. In the final, SA got around this by using an accurate rush - Manu hardly saw the ball.
We are a bit over reliant on Cane, Savea, and BBBR to make impact tackles around the ruck and towards midfield pods. One player who can help out in the future may be Moli, who was hammering guys around the ruck in the Wales game. Frizzel could develop to be this guy, and I think both Jacobson and Paps can bring it too.
In the midfield, I hate to say it, but I actually think the weak link is (or was) Mo’unga. We’ve been trying to find ways to hide him, as he tends to give up ground even if he makes his tackles. With him defending in or around the midfield plus a passive line, we can get in huge trouble - that was a key strategy England used all day. I think he has to defend closer to the ruck where he can get more help, and simply put, improve his defense.
I do agree that we were a bit small our wide, but putting back Rieko helps that, although with Dmac back we may get smaller (but more dangerous) at FB towards the end of games.
If we do want size/collisions in midfield, then the argument for Laumape gets stronger, but our two best midfielders are ALB and Jack. I think the secondary problem we had this year is that ALB has been really effective at 13 for the ABs but hardly played 12 for us, and just couldn’t be as effective without a bit more help from SBW or Crotty. His quick feet in traffic get more effective when we can use him a bit wider, so getting that balance right is a key challenge - having a bigger winger or ball running forward to do some of the in-close dummy running or hit-ups may be needed, so that ALB can get to the fringes with Coles and a winger, where he can cause havoc.
I can’t wait for next year.
@gt12 said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
In the midfield, I hate to say it, but I actually think the weak link is (or was) Mo’unga. We’ve been trying to find ways to hide him, as he tends to give up ground even if he makes his tackles. With him defending in or around the midfield plus a passive line, we can get in huge trouble - that was a key strategy England used all day. I think he has to defend closer to the ruck where he can get more help, and simply put, improve his defense.
Agreed. His defence is amazingly passive and McLeod appears to have developed a pattern to hide five-eighths out near the wing. The same thing we used to give the Wallabies shit about when they were doing it with their Tokoroan.
-
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
This is the reason i think Frank Bunce is the best centre i ever saw. It didn't matter what the ball was, or what the rest of the team was doing, Frank was almost a guarantee to generate quick, front-foot ball. A fucking hero.
He also liked to absolutely level blokes in tackles. I love Frank.
@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
This is the reason i think Frank Bunce is the best centre i ever saw. It didn't matter what the ball was, or what the rest of the team was doing, Frank was almost a guarantee to generate quick, front-foot ball. A fucking hero.
He also liked to absolutely level blokes in tackles. I love Frank.
-
@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
This is the reason i think Frank Bunce is the best centre i ever saw. It didn't matter what the ball was, or what the rest of the team was doing, Frank was almost a guarantee to generate quick, front-foot ball. A fucking hero.
He also liked to absolutely level blokes in tackles. I love Frank.
@nzzp said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
This is the reason i think Frank Bunce is the best centre i ever saw. It didn't matter what the ball was, or what the rest of the team was doing, Frank was almost a guarantee to generate quick, front-foot ball. A fucking hero.
He also liked to absolutely level blokes in tackles. I love Frank.
I love that photo. Everyone is either focused on Frank or where Frank will end up bar one person, who looks like he's had enough and running away
-
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
Yeah because our most dominant hitter wasn't on the bloody field!
I think it was a bad day at the office, the Boks backs outside of De Allende (who's roughly the same size as Boris Goodhue) and Pollard for a 10 aren't exactly huge and they nicely touched up the supposedly unbeatable England.
-
@nzzp said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
This is the reason i think Frank Bunce is the best centre i ever saw. It didn't matter what the ball was, or what the rest of the team was doing, Frank was almost a guarantee to generate quick, front-foot ball. A fucking hero.
He also liked to absolutely level blokes in tackles. I love Frank.
I love that photo. Everyone is either focused on Frank or where Frank will end up bar one person, who looks like he's had enough and running away
-
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia How many did he win against England?
From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.
I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.
Yeah because our most dominant hitter wasn't on the bloody field!
I think it was a bad day at the office, the Boks backs outside of De Allende (who's roughly the same size as Boris Goodhue) and Pollard for a 10 aren't exactly huge and they nicely touched up the supposedly unbeatable England.
@Nepia Yeah - that was a mistake. But, ideally, you want lots of dominant tacklers/tackles. Keep sending them backwards.
Here's an old article from Wayne Smith - the important stuff appears before you need to enter your email.
https://www.therugbysite.com/blog/news-opinions/the-stats-do-lie-by-wayne-smith
-
man the video quality back in the day was stunning!
-
man the video quality back in the day was stunning!
@taniwharugby Buncy looked like he was almost laughing. The aussies have a history of crazy brave hot head loosies LOL
-
He only got a Yellow didnt he?
I imagine that 'attack' as piss poor as it was, would get you a very long ban today!
-
@antipodean Exactly right!
Size is a good attribute for a rugby player.
Speed is a good attribute for a rugby player.
Being skillful is a good attribute for a rugby player.
Being smart if a good attribute for a rugby player.If you have a big, fast, skillful and smart rugby player, he's probably going to be a better player than a small, slow, clumsy and stupid player.
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Size is a good attribute for a rugby player.
Speed is a good attribute for a rugby player.
Being skillful is a good attribute for a rugby player.
Being smart if a good attribute for a rugby player.Add attitude / aggression to the list.
It was lacking in a recent match that comes to mind.
-
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
Yeah - having people like Nonu, Savea and SBW who win collisions was pretty handy in 2015.
I'd like to see some rapid development of Rayasi and Big Leicester, among others.
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
Yeah - having people like Nonu, Savea and SBW who win collisions was pretty handy in 2015.
Conveniently "forgetting" the other members of that backline, who weren't very big. As in, most of them.
It's not like we played Nonu and SBW beside each other even.
-
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
Yeah - having people like Nonu, Savea and SBW who win collisions was pretty handy in 2015.
Conveniently "forgetting" the other members of that backline, who weren't very big. As in, most of them.
It's not like we played Nonu and SBW beside each other even.
@Chester-Draws said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
Yeah - having people like Nonu, Savea and SBW who win collisions was pretty handy in 2015.
Conveniently "forgetting" the other members of that backline, who weren't very big. As in, most of them.
It's not like we played Nonu and SBW beside each other even.
We finished the Tonga, France (QF), and Australia (Final) with them on the field together, and in the semi SBW replaced Nonu.
We had at least two, often finishing with three, big bodies on the field in the backs during that entire WC campaign.
The make up of the wingers was also very different to this year.
-
Samisoni Taukei'aho is the tight forward I'm most excited about. Hopefully his throwing improves.
I wonder if the Chiefs will suffer from lack of a focussed coaching team ...
@Tim said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Samisoni Taukei'aho is the tight forward I'm most excited about. Hopefully his throwing improves.
I wonder if the Chiefs will suffer from lack of a focussed coaching team ...
I expect a coaching shakeup from Gatland after the change of roles for the assistants this season. He should also have no preconceived ideas on his best XV.
-
@Chester-Draws said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
Yeah - having people like Nonu, Savea and SBW who win collisions was pretty handy in 2015.
Conveniently "forgetting" the other members of that backline, who weren't very big. As in, most of them.
It's not like we played Nonu and SBW beside each other even.
We finished the Tonga, France (QF), and Australia (Final) with them on the field together, and in the semi SBW replaced Nonu.
We had at least two, often finishing with three, big bodies on the field in the backs during that entire WC campaign.
The make up of the wingers was also very different to this year.
