Chiefs 2020
-
As mentioned in the article Cruden should bring up 100 games for the Chiefs in 2020.
-
@Bovidae "Should" - the main benefit will be the experience and knowledge he brings to his understudies.
@antipodean "Should" as in Cruden needs to stay injury free to reach that milestone. The article touches on the benefits he will bring off the field, including mentoring the younger backs.
-
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-region-closing-deal-17200879
MMac seems to be heading to Wales. Can we celebrate this as a small victory?
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-region-closing-deal-17200879
MMac seems to be heading to Wales. Can we celebrate this as a small victory?
The land that loves our mediocre first-fives....
Nah, good on him, will probably do well up there. Actually has solid skills and a lot of experience. Will suit no risk competition rugby.
-
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-region-closing-deal-17200879
MMac seems to be heading to Wales. Can we celebrate this as a small victory?
The land that loves our mediocre first-fives....
Nah, good on him, will probably do well up there. Actually has solid skills and a lot of experience. Will suit no risk competition rugby.
-
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional. -
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
-
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
we had more holes than just Marty. Our squad was pretty ordinary.
-
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
True. Look at MMac's play for the Chiefs last year. He was the best option they had and once the style was adjusted so that it didn't rely on creativity from 10 they did Ok. He steered them around and sat back when the tempo increased so that others could take advantage.
A better option than throwing a green youngster with potential into the critical position. -
MMac's major problem is the talent wasn't evenly distributed in his family.
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
we had more holes than just Marty. Our squad was pretty ordinary.
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
we had more holes than just Marty. Our squad was pretty ordinary.
Agreed, but he just wasn’t quite good enough.
My personal feeling is that beyond the star power he had (Cruden, SBW, Cane, Messam, then Retallick), it was the squad selections by Rennie and his team that paid off. Horrell, Tiks, Sona, Robinson (fitting given that they are cousins) were all players who could come in and fill a role in alignment with strategy.
With Cooper it seemed to be, I know him from Taranaki, good man, that’ll do. I hope that lesson has been learned....
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
we had more holes than just Marty. Our squad was pretty ordinary.
Agreed, but he just wasn’t quite good enough.
My personal feeling is that beyond the star power he had (Cruden, SBW, Cane, Messam, then Retallick), it was the squad selections by Rennie and his team that paid off. Horrell, Tiks, Sona, Robinson (fitting given that they are cousins) were all players who could come in and fill a role in alignment with strategy.
With Cooper it seemed to be, I know him from Taranaki, good man, that’ll do. I hope that lesson has been learned....
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
we had more holes than just Marty. Our squad was pretty ordinary.
Agreed, but he just wasn’t quite good enough.
My personal feeling is that beyond the star power he had (Cruden, SBW, Cane, then Retallick), it was the squad selections by Rennie and his team that paid off. Horrell, Tiks, Sona, Robinson (fitting given that they are cousins) were all players who could come in and fill a rule in alignment with strategy.
With Cooper it seemed to be, I know him from Taranaki, good man, that’ll do. I hope that lesson has been learned....
Rennie was pretty good at getting guys to play above themselves as well. Gave them a role in the side, and focused them on being really good at that
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
we had more holes than just Marty. Our squad was pretty ordinary.
Agreed, but he just wasn’t quite good enough.
My personal feeling is that beyond the star power he had (Cruden, SBW, Cane, Messam, then Retallick), it was the squad selections by Rennie and his team that paid off. Horrell, Tiks, Sona, Robinson (fitting given that they are cousins) were all players who could come in and fill a role in alignment with strategy.
With Cooper it seemed to be, I know him from Taranaki, good man, that’ll do. I hope that lesson has been learned....
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
we had more holes than just Marty. Our squad was pretty ordinary.
Agreed, but he just wasn’t quite good enough.
With Cooper it seemed to be, I know him from Taranaki, good man, that’ll do. I hope that lesson has been learned....
What lesson? He was a squad filler and a fallback, not predicted to be a starter or main component.
The point I was trying to make was that this type of player is quickly dissed around here but what is the alternative you offer? Where is the queue of gun 10s that will set the tournament alight? The ones that Cooper should have added to the squad instead of MMac?
They had the young guys in there for development but they got injured and the 'safety' option had to be deployed. He was a good option in that situation is all I am saying. I don't think anyone, including Cooper, has ever seen him as a gun.
In retrospect the Blues, with their perennial issues in the position probably could have done with a 'glue' 10 and built the style around that. Get into position then strike instead of expecting a flaky 'skills' option to create a win for you. Would it have won them titles? No, but it probably would have won them more games than searching for something that wasn't there. -
I guess the other thing about those teams were that we had AB or close to AB quality in key positions: Hooker, lock, flankers (2), hb, first five, midfield, and fb.
I’ll look forward to seeing who they roll out today.
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
I guess the other thing about those teams were that we had AB or close to AB quality in key positions: Hooker, lock, flankers (2), hb, first five, midfield, and fb.
I’ll look forward to seeing who they roll out today.
it was a seriously good side, especially at loose forward.
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
@Yeetyaah said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial experience, yes. Skills, debatable.
I said solid skills not outstanding skills.
I think that our high standards in looking for the exceptional in players in NZ often make us blind or overly critical to players with very good basic skill levels that would be welcome in many clubs around the world.
Anscombe and Gopperth are a couple of examples of guys that have done much better for themselves finding an environment that desires basics rather than pushing too hard for the exceptional.that is a fair point, we, as fans, have gone away from valuing "glue" players. If a bloke isn't a potential AB, we are already looking for the replacement.
He wasn’t an Andrew Horrell though, that’s exactly the problem with him - reasonable goal kicking aside, he has short distance kicking with the boot, is slow as fuck, and is not a great passer - making him the perfect back up first five for Chiefs rugby. Thanks Colin!
we had more holes than just Marty. Our squad was pretty ordinary.
Agreed, but he just wasn’t quite good enough.
With Cooper it seemed to be, I know him from Taranaki, good man, that’ll do. I hope that lesson has been learned....
What lesson? He was a squad filler and a fallback, not predicted to be a starter or main component.
The point I was trying to make was that this type of player is quickly dissed around here but what is the alternative you offer? Where is the queue of gun 10s that will set the tournament alight? The ones that Cooper should have added to the squad instead of MMac?
They had the young guys in there for development but they got injured and the 'safety' option had to be deployed. He was a good option in that situation is all I am saying. I don't think anyone, including Cooper, has ever seen him as a gun.
In retrospect the Blues, with their perennial issues in the position probably could have done with a 'glue' 10 and built the style around that. Get into position then strike instead of expecting a flaky 'skills' option to create a win for you. Would it have won them titles? No, but it probably would have won them more games than searching for something that wasn't there.@Crucial we're very light at 10 across the whole country. And that includes the starters, let alone the backups.
