All Blacks XV - New second tier team
-
Locks
Whitelock, Tuipulotu, Barrett + 1 in the ABs.
Contenders:
Allardice
Cowley-Tuioti
IWL
Dunshea
Strange
DicksonMaybe Strange to the ABs, leaving IWL, GCT, and Dunshea for the B team. Dickson for fourth lock?
@Tim said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Locks
Whitelock, Tuipulotu, Barrett + 1 in the ABs.
Contenders:
Allardice
Cowley-Tuioti
IWL
Dunshea
Strange
DicksonMaybe Strange to the ABs, leaving IWL, GCT, and Dunshea for the B team. Dickson for fourth lock?
Jeez I heard Jason Pyne on RS this morning name a scratch 15 and he had James Blackwell as a lock. If any senior NZ rep team ever selects a 1.90m lock forward, I'll strap myself to a Nth Korean ICBM and ask them to point it at NZR HQ.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Locks
Whitelock, Tuipulotu, Barrett + 1 in the ABs.
Contenders:
Allardice
Cowley-Tuioti
IWL
Dunshea
Strange
DicksonMaybe Strange to the ABs, leaving IWL, GCT, and Dunshea for the B team. Dickson for fourth lock?
Jeez I heard Jason Pyne on RS this morning name a scratch 15 and he had James Blackwell as a lock. If any senior NZ rep team ever selects a 1.90m lock forward, I'll strap myself to a Nth Korean ICBM and ask them to point it at NZR HQ.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
1st 5:
Big question over third AB ten.
Ioane, Black, and Smith are probably the most prominent this year. Perhaps two of those (Black and Smith) plus a player who covers 10 from another position like Havili, Stevenson, or Perofeta.
With Mo'unga, Barrett and McKenzie in an AB squad, you don't need another 10.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
1st 5:
Big question over third AB ten.
Ioane, Black, and Smith are probably the most prominent this year. Perhaps two of those (Black and Smith) plus a player who covers 10 from another position like Havili, Stevenson, or Perofeta.
With Mo'unga, Barrett and McKenzie in an AB squad, you don't need another 10.
@shark said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Tim said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
1st 5:
Big question over third AB ten.
Ioane, Black, and Smith are probably the most prominent this year. Perhaps two of those (Black and Smith) plus a player who covers 10 from another position like Havili, Stevenson, or Perofeta.
With Mo'unga, Barrett and McKenzie in an AB squad, you don't need another 10.
🤮
-
@shark said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Tim said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
1st 5:
Big question over third AB ten.
Ioane, Black, and Smith are probably the most prominent this year. Perhaps two of those (Black and Smith) plus a player who covers 10 from another position like Havili, Stevenson, or Perofeta.
With Mo'unga, Barrett and McKenzie in an AB squad, you don't need another 10.
🤮
-
Name doesn't bother me too much, after the JABs, AB7s and MABs this is now standard procedure. A bit of too little too late considering the last JAB game was in 2009 and since recently the udpated 5 year residency requirement will mean the number of guys being capped for Scotland, Ireland, Wales etc. will drop significantly (assuming this is a capped side).
-
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
-
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
I read this line to mean that's what they were doing?
""The All Blacks XV will be our second-tier team below the All Blacks and made up New Zealand's 'next best' players," Cass said"
And the rest of the article talks about retention of players.
-
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
I read this line to mean that's what they were doing?
""The All Blacks XV will be our second-tier team below the All Blacks and made up New Zealand's 'next best' players," Cass said"
And the rest of the article talks about retention of players.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
I read this line to mean that's what they were doing?
""The All Blacks XV will be our second-tier team below the All Blacks and made up New Zealand's 'next best' players," Cass said"
And the rest of the article talks about retention of players.
That’s how I read it too.
Looks like a switch in policy to me. I always thought that having the unused JABs as designated second team was a deliberate ploy to keep pathway options open for some (particularly PI) players. Some may stay developing in NZ and become viable AB options if they know they still have a fallback international option. Gives them two options.
Now it could be the opposite. Will those fringe players want to play for the XV knowing that it may be their peak? -
I guess we'll have to wait for the updated version of this document:
Men's and Women's Next Senior National Representative Team 2019
-
As a side issue, should their be different eligibility rules for 'second team' players? That is, maybe a stand-down period before becoming eligible elsewhere rather than a flat out lock in.
Would be good for PI rugby. Plenty of guys that would have been picked in a AB XV team that didn't make the ABs but went on to rep for someone else. The likes of TNW for example.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Locks
Whitelock, Tuipulotu, Barrett + 1 in the ABs.
Contenders:
Allardice
Cowley-Tuioti
IWL
Dunshea
Strange
DicksonMaybe Strange to the ABs, leaving IWL, GCT, and Dunshea for the B team. Dickson for fourth lock?
Jeez I heard Jason Pyne on RS this morning name a scratch 15 and he had James Blackwell as a lock. If any senior NZ rep team ever selects a 1.90m lock forward, I'll strap myself to a Nth Korean ICBM and ask them to point it at NZR HQ.
-
@shark hahaha ffs. THE GUY ISN'T A LOCK!!
@Canes4life said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@shark hahaha ffs. THE GUY ISN'T A LOCK!!
You mean in terms of size (agreed) or positionally?? Because that's where he plays for the Canes and Wellington.
-
If Rieko Ioane is now considered as a centre, then Telea and Alaimalo must come into consideration for the All Blacks (and maybe Bridge though his performances during the WC let me think he want make the AB squad) for the left wing spot. This leaves Nareki for the All Blacks XV.
-
@Kirwan said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
I read this line to mean that's what they were doing?
""The All Blacks XV will be our second-tier team below the All Blacks and made up New Zealand's 'next best' players," Cass said"
And the rest of the article talks about retention of players.
That’s how I read it too.
Looks like a switch in policy to me. I always thought that having the unused JABs as designated second team was a deliberate ploy to keep pathway options open for some (particularly PI) players. Some may stay developing in NZ and become viable AB options if they know they still have a fallback international option. Gives them two options.
Now it could be the opposite. Will those fringe players want to play for the XV knowing that it may be their peak?@Crucial said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
I read this line to mean that's what they were doing?
""The All Blacks XV will be our second-tier team below the All Blacks and made up New Zealand's 'next best' players," Cass said"
And the rest of the article talks about retention of players.
That’s how I read it too.
Looks like a switch in policy to me. I always thought that having the unused JABs as designated second team was a deliberate ploy to keep pathway options open for some (particularly PI) players. Some may stay developing in NZ and become viable AB options if they know they still have a fallback international option. Gives them two options.
Now it could be the opposite. Will those fringe players want to play for the XV knowing that it may be their peak?Yeah, this is my concern - how many guys will want to tie themselves to NZ without actually getting an AB cap?
Will certain guys politefully decline selection because it will preclude them from paying for another international team if they never subsequently play for the ABs?
What happens to those guys in terms of getting future NZRU contracts? Will they be offered such contracts if they decline to represent the AB XV?
Will it have the opposite effect of what's intended and actually force those guys to leave earlier as they are no longer being offered / eligible for NZRU contracts?
Does AB selection need to be tied to representing the AB XV in order to make this work as intended, i.e. do we need to make AB eligibility dependent upon first playing for the AB XV?
-
@Crucial said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
I read this line to mean that's what they were doing?
""The All Blacks XV will be our second-tier team below the All Blacks and made up New Zealand's 'next best' players," Cass said"
And the rest of the article talks about retention of players.
That’s how I read it too.
Looks like a switch in policy to me. I always thought that having the unused JABs as designated second team was a deliberate ploy to keep pathway options open for some (particularly PI) players. Some may stay developing in NZ and become viable AB options if they know they still have a fallback international option. Gives them two options.
Now it could be the opposite. Will those fringe players want to play for the XV knowing that it may be their peak?Yeah, this is my concern - how many guys will want to tie themselves to NZ without actually getting an AB cap?
Will certain guys politefully decline selection because it will preclude them from paying for another international team if they never subsequently play for the ABs?
What happens to those guys in terms of getting future NZRU contracts? Will they be offered such contracts if they decline to represent the AB XV?
Will it have the opposite effect of what's intended and actually force those guys to leave earlier as they are no longer being offered / eligible for NZRU contracts?
Does AB selection need to be tied to representing the AB XV in order to make this work as intended, i.e. do we need to make AB eligibility dependent upon first playing for the AB XV?
@junior said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Crucial said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV - New second tier team:
Unless NZR officialy go to world rugby and change the designated side, which is currenlty JAB, players in this side won't be captured. I don't know if NZR will, I think they will rely on the carrot of possible later full AB rather than tying in players who may never represent NZ again, and then can't anyone else. But maybe I am assigning too much altruism to NZR!
I read this line to mean that's what they were doing?
""The All Blacks XV will be our second-tier team below the All Blacks and made up New Zealand's 'next best' players," Cass said"
And the rest of the article talks about retention of players.
That’s how I read it too.
Looks like a switch in policy to me. I always thought that having the unused JABs as designated second team was a deliberate ploy to keep pathway options open for some (particularly PI) players. Some may stay developing in NZ and become viable AB options if they know they still have a fallback international option. Gives them two options.
Now it could be the opposite. Will those fringe players want to play for the XV knowing that it may be their peak?Yeah, this is my concern - how many guys will want to tie themselves to NZ without actually getting an AB cap?
Will certain guys politefully decline selection because it will preclude them from paying for another international team if they never subsequently play for the ABs?
What happens to those guys in terms of getting future NZRU contracts? Will they be offered such contracts if they decline to represent the AB XV?
Will it have the opposite effect of what's intended and actually force those guys to leave earlier as they are no longer being offered / eligible for NZRU contracts?
Does AB selection need to be tied to representing the AB XV in order to make this work as intended, i.e. do we need to make AB eligibility dependent upon first playing for the AB XV?
There has been no word, yes or no, if this team is taking the place of the JABs. So all the eligibility stuff is still up in the air.
As to having to represent XV before full ABs, no way will that happen. Never happened with the JABs, and ot going to happen with XV. Like the JAB, the XV will not have a full program of games, and it would be nonsense that you have to play for the 2nd XV before the 1st XV. If you're good enough, you're good enough.
-
NZR certainly used the term ‘second team’
If not the official second team then it really does take the piss regarding WR regulations.
Our second team is one that we have announced as defunct?
