AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?
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@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
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@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
Why?
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey.
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Certainly think it's true that some posters on here judge players from the Crusaders/ Canterbury more harshly than players from elsewhere.
But there are others who rate Reuban Thorne above Jerome Kaino and Scott Hamilton on a par to Jonah Lomu for reasons of provincial loyalty.
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Team I'd go for if there was a Test in a couple of weeks:
Moody, Taylor, Ofa T, Sam Whitelock, Patrick Tuipulotu, Papali'i, Cane (c), Sotutu, A. Smith,B. Barrett ,C. Clarke, ALB, Goodhue, Reece (maybe Telea), J. Barrett (or W. Jordan)
Bench 16. D. Coles. 17. Karl T (or Hodgman) 18. Lualala 19. Dickson 20. A. Savea 21. TJP 22. R. Mo'unga 23. R. Ioane@sparky said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Team I'd go for if there was a Test in a couple of weeks:
Moody, Taylor, Ofa T, Sam Whitelock, Patrick Tuipulotu, Papali'i, Cane (c), Sotutu, A. Smith,B. Barrett ,C. Clarke, ALB, Goodhue, Reece (maybe Telea), J. Barrett (or W. Jordan)
Bench 16. D. Coles. 17. Karl T (or Hodgman) 18. Lualala 19. Dickson 20. A. Savea 21. TJP 22. R. Mo'unga 23. R. IoaneLove Reece's speed, work rate and finishing. If Telea can match him those areas and develop into a better player in contact, maybe he'll overtake him as AB Right Wing but Reece for me still has an extra edge.
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Going by stats from Fox for this year, for example, he's way down on running metres where Telea leads; does OK for line breaks (6 after Ioane who leads for NZ players with 10); is 4th for tackles busts after Telea, Ioane, and Bridge; leads in offloads; is third equal for turnovers (after Bridge and Telea - and is tied with Ioane); is 7th for handling errors (Bridge leads with 11, Ioane 7, Telea 6, Reece 5); has a YC and two penalties; and leads in missed tackles (8, with Ioane and Telea both having 7 misses).
So, they are all a much of a muchness.
He's not clearly put his hand up and shown that he should be retained. I can't see why questioning whether he is the right man to hold his position or not is very controversial.
@gt12 it’s not controversial to question at all. On a similar note the counter is that an incumbent AB that has played pretty well so far in just the first couple of games is still right up there to take that starting spot. That’s not controversial either.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
Or gulp Jordie Barrett. He did start a test last year on the right wing too.
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Going by stats from Fox for this year, for example, he's way down on running metres where Telea leads; does OK for line breaks (6 after Ioane who leads for NZ players with 10); is 4th for tackles busts after Telea, Ioane, and Bridge; leads in offloads; is third equal for turnovers (after Bridge and Telea - and is tied with Ioane); is 7th for handling errors (Bridge leads with 11, Ioane 7, Telea 6, Reece 5); has a YC and two penalties; and leads in missed tackles (8, with Ioane and Telea both having 7 misses).
So, they are all a much of a muchness.
He's not clearly put his hand up and shown that he should be retained. I can't see why questioning whether he is the right man to hold his position or not is very controversial.
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@gt12 That's not answering my question. What does his selection have to do with playing for the Crusaders?
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 That's not answering my question. What does his selection have to do with playing for the Crusaders?
I'll go there.
It's easier to perform in a well coached winning team with a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players.
You just have to look at Bryn Hall recently - discarded at the Blues, but doing enough to do a role at the Crusaders, and look good doing it. And then success breeds success - if you want to be an AB, where do you go? The place where you can showcase your talents best.
This will change eventually (separatling Franchise and Provincial contracts was a big step), but the Crusaders have had an edge in recruitment for a long time and it shows. I mean- just look at the backline they put together last weekend; how many of them were 'home grown' talent? Richie and kinda Will - the rest were all from out of catchment.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
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@gt12 Is Ioane in there as a wing, or just because he features in the lists? Because he's playing centre.
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To be honest, apart from Lock where we are missing BBBR (but have Pat T standing up) I’m pretty excited about what this squad can bring. Hopefully it will be like the 2016 year, or the awesome newbies of 2012. Long term we have places that are looking a bit bare, the age of A Smith for ex, but SRA has really highlighted some wicked potential out there.
The coach however..... Judgement Reserved, but ready for the Axe Call!
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@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 That's not answering my question. What does his selection have to do with playing for the Crusaders?
I'll go there.
It's easier to perform in a well coached winning team with a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players.
You just have to look at Bryn Hall recently - discarded at the Blues, but doing enough to do a role at the Crusaders, and look good doing it. And then success breeds success - if you want to be an AB, where do you go? The place where you can showcase your talents best.
This will change eventually (separatling Franchise and Provincial contracts was a big step), but the Crusaders have had an edge in recruitment for a long time and it shows. I mean- just look at the backline they put together last weekend; how many of them were 'home grown' talent? Richie and kinda Will - the rest were all from out of catchment.
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 That's not answering my question. What does his selection have to do with playing for the Crusaders?
I'll go there.
It's easier to perform in a well coached winning team with a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players.
You just have to look at Bryn Hall recently - discarded at the Blues, but doing enough to do a role at the Crusaders, and look good doing it. And then success breeds success - if you want to be an AB, where do you go? The place where you can showcase your talents best.
This will change eventually (separatling Franchise and Provincial contracts was a big step), but the Crusaders have had an edge in recruitment for a long time and it shows. I mean- just look at the backline they put together last weekend; how many of them were 'home grown' talent? Richie and kinda Will - the rest were all from out of catchment.
it's the same reason why you should never buy Melbourne Storm players.
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Reece played centre at schoolboy level for a bit as well. Do kinda wish he went off to Connacht as it still doesn't sit well that he's an All Black. @gt12 explain the poach business?
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@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 That's not answering my question. What does his selection have to do with playing for the Crusaders?
I'll go there.
It's easier to perform in a well coached winning team with a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players.
You just have to look at Bryn Hall recently - discarded at the Blues, but doing enough to do a role at the Crusaders, and look good doing it. And then success breeds success - if you want to be an AB, where do you go? The place where you can showcase your talents best.
This will change eventually (separatling Franchise and Provincial contracts was a big step), but the Crusaders have had an edge in recruitment for a long time and it shows. I mean- just look at the backline they put together last weekend; how many of them were 'home grown' talent? Richie and kinda Will - the rest were all from out of catchment.
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 That's not answering my question. What does his selection have to do with playing for the Crusaders?
I'll go there.
It's easier to perform in a well coached winning team with a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players.
You just have to look at Bryn Hall recently - discarded at the Blues, but doing enough to do a role at the Crusaders, and look good doing it. And then success breeds success - if you want to be an AB, where do you go? The place where you can showcase your talents best.
This will change eventually (separatling Franchise and Provincial contracts was a big step), but the Crusaders have had an edge in recruitment for a long time and it shows. I mean- just look at the backline they put together last weekend; how many of them were 'home grown' talent? Richie and kinda Will - the rest were all from out of catchment.
And, yet, there are guys like Waisake Naholo who went from the Blues to the Highlanders, and made ABs from there. Or Jordie Barrett, who left the Crusaders academy and went to the Hurricanes, and made the ABs from there. I'm sure there are more.
I think more guys make the ABs from the Crusaders not just because they have "a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players." I think it's because the Crusaders are better at identifying the talent in players in the first place. Guys don't just go to the Crusaders, they have to earn and be offered a spot first.
The Crusaders wouldn't have signed guys like Bryn Hall and others from out of the regions, because these players wanted to be there and were "discarded" by other franchises. These players always had the talent. These other franchises simply didn't recognise the talent and/or weren't able to develop the potential.
The Blues don't need talent from out of the region, because of the huge talent pool, but if Leon keeps doing what he's doing and talent identification has improved, you'll see the same happening there in spots they're not able to fill from within the region. The Canes could see the opposite happening, though, and become the new Highlanders.
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I could be wrong, but he was recruited to HBHS from Queen Victoria (Fiji - rugby school) after showing up as an athlete there. Yuck.
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@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 That's not answering my question. What does his selection have to do with playing for the Crusaders?
I'll go there.
It's easier to perform in a well coached winning team with a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players.
You just have to look at Bryn Hall recently - discarded at the Blues, but doing enough to do a role at the Crusaders, and look good doing it. And then success breeds success - if you want to be an AB, where do you go? The place where you can showcase your talents best.
This will change eventually (separatling Franchise and Provincial contracts was a big step), but the Crusaders have had an edge in recruitment for a long time and it shows. I mean- just look at the backline they put together last weekend; how many of them were 'home grown' talent? Richie and kinda Will - the rest were all from out of catchment.
And, yet, there are guys like Waisake Naholo who went from the Blues to the Highlanders, and made ABs from there. Or Jordie Barrett, who left the Crusaders academy and went to the Hurricanes, and made the ABs from there. I'm sure there are more.
I think more guys make the ABs from the Crusaders not just because they have "a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players." I think it's because the Crusaders are better at identifying the talent in players in the first place. Guys don't just go to the Crusaders, they have to earn and be offered a spot first.
The Crusaders wouldn't have signed guys like Bryn Hall and others from out of the regions, because these players wanted to be there and were "discarded" by other franchises. These players always had the talent. These other franchises simply didn't recognise the talent and/or weren't able to develop the potential.
The Blues don't need talent from out of the region, because of the huge talent pool, but if Leon keeps doing what he's doing and talent identification has improved, you'll see the same happening there in spots they're not able to fill from within the region. The Canes could see the opposite happening, though, and become the new Highlanders.
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@nzzp said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 That's not answering my question. What does his selection have to do with playing for the Crusaders?
I'll go there.
It's easier to perform in a well coached winning team with a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players.
You just have to look at Bryn Hall recently - discarded at the Blues, but doing enough to do a role at the Crusaders, and look good doing it. And then success breeds success - if you want to be an AB, where do you go? The place where you can showcase your talents best.
This will change eventually (separatling Franchise and Provincial contracts was a big step), but the Crusaders have had an edge in recruitment for a long time and it shows. I mean- just look at the backline they put together last weekend; how many of them were 'home grown' talent? Richie and kinda Will - the rest were all from out of catchment.
And, yet, there are guys like Waisake Naholo who went from the Blues to the Highlanders, and made ABs from there. Or Jordie Barrett, who left the Crusaders academy and went to the Hurricanes, and made the ABs from there. I'm sure there are more.
I think more guys make the ABs from the Crusaders not just because they have "a winning culture, supported by a competent set of administrators, and surrounded by good players." I think it's because the Crusaders are better at identifying the talent in players in the first place. Guys don't just go to the Crusaders, they have to earn and be offered a spot first.
The Crusaders wouldn't have signed guys like Bryn Hall and others from out of the regions, because these players wanted to be there and were "discarded" by other franchises. These players always had the talent. These other franchises simply didn't recognise the talent and/or weren't able to develop the potential.
The Blues don't need talent from out of the region, because of the huge talent pool, but if Leon keeps doing what he's doing and talent identification has improved, you'll see the same happening there in spots they're not able to fill from within the region. The Canes could see the opposite happening, though, and become the new Highlanders.
jesus. Wipe your chin.
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@gt12 HBHS brings over a Fijian on scholarship for year 12/13. Other examples include Speight and Narawa. A lot of other schools do the same for PI players.
