'Super Rugby' 2021
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@Kiwiwomble you can't seriously exclude anyone on the basis of performance whilst you are still positing a Pasifika team. The odds of a Pasifika team being competitive (or even viable) are very long.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble you can't seriously exclude anyone on the basis of performance whilst you are still positing a Pasifika team. The odds of a Pasifika team being competitive (or even viable) are very long.
Yeah it is a bit of bollaux that, unless the pasifika team gets some mega molaah to buy in players from Fr/UK/Jap they'll be stuck with NZ and Oz left overs. Pretty much the Sunwolves Mk2
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is it not obvious that the different markets (aus, PI and Nz) will be based on different criteria?
PI are something new, potential to provide an even more clear pathway for new talent
AUS have been there and had a good chance so they dont get the same leeway
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is it not obvious that the different markets (aus, PI and Nz) will be based on different criteria?
PI are something new, potential to provide an even more clear pathway for new talent
AUS have been there and had a good chance so they dont get the same leeway
@Kiwiwomble Doesn't help, the same could be said of the Sunwolves, what a fucking mess that was. You have to earn the right to be in the comp, not develop in it. Every new team has been shiite for so long, if it is going to be SUPER rugby, then it also can't be DEVELOPMENT rugby. The key point that came out of the reviews of SR over the years is adding shit teams does not make a good comp that people want to watch/invest in. Pasifika will get spanked, every game, without some serious players and money
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph 5 NZ + 1 pacifika leaves 4 spots max...
Perfect. Perth adds complexity and cost for very little benefit
But it may actually be no cost at all. In fact it might actually be too lucrative for them to turn down. If Twiggy funds the Force out of his own pocket, it gives RA/NZRU more content to sell to broadcasters at a better time for SA/NH.
So it comes down to the integrity of the comp (as the Force will struggle) versus the need for cash. And at the moment you'd think the unions would be sorely tempted to chase the moolah.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph 5 NZ + 1 pacifika leaves 4 spots max...
Perfect. Perth adds complexity and cost for very little benefit
But it may actually be no cost at all. In fact it might actually be too lucrative for them to turn down. If Twiggy funds the Force out of his own pocket, it gives RA/NZRU more content to sell to broadcasters at a better time for SA/NH.
So it comes down to the integrity of the comp (as the Force will struggle) versus the need for cash. And at the moment you'd think the unions would be sorely tempted to chase the moolah.
I'm sure if Twiggy puts up the cash, funds all the travel etc then they'd be welcomed, but I'd expect that want it cash upfront from him.
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Didn't the ARU agree a few years ago that 5 Aussie teams was unsustainable. Why do they suddenly want 5 teams again?
@akan004 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Didn't the ARU agree a few years ago that 5 Aussie teams was unsustainable. Why do they suddenly want 5 teams again?
Because they have opened Pandora's Box with adding the Force back into SROz. Much harder to take them back out again, they'v gone for short term gain, long term pain.
In short they're desperate!
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@akan004 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Didn't the ARU agree a few years ago that 5 Aussie teams was unsustainable. Why do they suddenly want 5 teams again?
Because they have opened Pandora's Box with adding the Force back into SROz. Much harder to take them back out again, they'v gone for short term gain, long term pain.
In short they're desperate!
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@akan004 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Didn't the ARU agree a few years ago that 5 Aussie teams was unsustainable. Why do they suddenly want 5 teams again?
Because they have opened Pandora's Box with adding the Force back into SROz. Much harder to take them back out again, they'v gone for short term gain, long term pain.
In short they're desperate!
Now they have someone else to blame. Those bloody kiwis standing over Australian rugby and wanting to kill of the Force! UnAustralian!
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Didn't the ARU agree a few years ago that 5 Aussie teams was unsustainable. Why do they suddenly want 5 teams again?
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@Billy-Tell it's not really about swallowing our pride. You are basically asking us to abandon any hope of every having a rugby presence in a particular state. Is that pride?
Given NZ are being so belligerent i wouldn't be particularly upset if we just didn't participate.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Billy-Tell it's not really about swallowing our pride. You are basically asking us to abandon any hope of every having a rugby presence in a particular state. Is that pride?
Given NZ are being so belligerent i wouldn't be particularly upset if we just didn't participate.
Well the solution is simple; don't. Why does NZR have to continue supporting rugby in Australia?
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I would prefer domestic 8 team comp.
So I'm disappointed.
Still only 1 team in Auckland, unless the Pasifika team gets to divide there on race, I suppose.
Still only 2 , night games, in NZ per week on average.
Doesn't solve the generational drift.
Have my doubts that an international club comp will even take place still by 2021, so wasted opportunity to get a domestic version bedded in.
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https://australia.rugby/news/2020/07/17/rugby-au-statement-nzr-decision
Rugby Australia acknowledges New Zealand Rugby’s preferred position following their announcement today regarding a potential future provincial competition from 2021 and look forward to working constructively with New Zealand Rugby in the coming weeks.
Rugby Australia will also continue its discussions with stakeholders in Australia and is in constant consultation with our valued SANZAAR Joint Venture partners.
Due to impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Rugby Australia recognises that there is a need to review the sustainability and practicality of the current Super Rugby competition and consider alternative models that are in the best interests of Australian Rugby from 2021 and beyond.
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https://australia.rugby/news/2020/07/17/rugby-au-statement-nzr-decision
Rugby Australia acknowledges New Zealand Rugby’s preferred position following their announcement today regarding a potential future provincial competition from 2021 and look forward to working constructively with New Zealand Rugby in the coming weeks.
Rugby Australia will also continue its discussions with stakeholders in Australia and is in constant consultation with our valued SANZAAR Joint Venture partners.
Due to impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Rugby Australia recognises that there is a need to review the sustainability and practicality of the current Super Rugby competition and consider alternative models that are in the best interests of Australian Rugby from 2021 and beyond.
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
https://australia.rugby/news/2020/07/17/rugby-au-statement-nzr-decision
Rugby Australia acknowledges New Zealand Rugby’s preferred position following their announcement today regarding a potential future provincial competition from 2021 and look forward to working constructively with New Zealand Rugby in the coming weeks.
Rugby Australia will also continue its discussions with stakeholders in Australia and is in constant consultation with our valued SANZAAR Joint Venture partners.
Due to impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Rugby Australia recognises that there is a need to review the sustainability and practicality of the current Super Rugby competition and consider alternative models that are in the best interests of Australian Rugby from 2021 and beyond.
Well, at least Rugby Australia understood the whole concept of NZR's announcement, even if (some of) their easily triggered fans did not.
NZR did a study, and released their preferred position. ie: making public their opening position for any discussions and then negotiations to come.
Not being belligerent.
Not even being aggressive.
Not asking Australia to do anything.
Not dictating shit.
Just... "we actually put some thought into this, and this is what we think would be great... how about everybody else, what do you guys envision?" -
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
https://australia.rugby/news/2020/07/17/rugby-au-statement-nzr-decision
Rugby Australia acknowledges New Zealand Rugby’s preferred position following their announcement today regarding a potential future provincial competition from 2021 and look forward to working constructively with New Zealand Rugby in the coming weeks.
Rugby Australia will also continue its discussions with stakeholders in Australia and is in constant consultation with our valued SANZAAR Joint Venture partners.
Due to impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Rugby Australia recognises that there is a need to review the sustainability and practicality of the current Super Rugby competition and consider alternative models that are in the best interests of Australian Rugby from 2021 and beyond.
Well, at least Rugby Australia understood the whole concept of NZR's announcement, even if (some of) their easily triggered fans did not.
NZR did a study, and released their preferred position. ie: making public their opening position for any discussions and then negotiations to come.
Not being belligerent.
Not even being aggressive.
Not asking Australia to do anything.
Not dictating shit.
Just... "we actually put some thought into this, and this is what we think would be great... how about everybody else, what do you guys envision?"@Kruse said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
https://australia.rugby/news/2020/07/17/rugby-au-statement-nzr-decision
Rugby Australia acknowledges New Zealand Rugby’s preferred position following their announcement today regarding a potential future provincial competition from 2021 and look forward to working constructively with New Zealand Rugby in the coming weeks.
Rugby Australia will also continue its discussions with stakeholders in Australia and is in constant consultation with our valued SANZAAR Joint Venture partners.
Due to impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Rugby Australia recognises that there is a need to review the sustainability and practicality of the current Super Rugby competition and consider alternative models that are in the best interests of Australian Rugby from 2021 and beyond.
Well, at least Rugby Australia understood the whole concept of NZR's announcement, even if (some of) their easily triggered fans did not.
NZR did a study, and released their preferred position. ie: making public their opening position for any discussions and then negotiations to come.
Not being belligerent.
Not even being aggressive.
Not asking Australia to do anything.
Not dictating shit.
Just... "we actually put some thought into this, and this is what we think would be great... how about everybody else, what do you guys envision?"Is that true though? Have you read the statement? Because it hardly reads as 'here is what we think might be nice in future,what do you think guys?'.
For instance, "the NZR board has committed to establishing a new professional team competition in 2021." Pretty black and white there.
Also "We will also be working with Rugby Australia to seek expressions of interest from their current Super clubs and other interested parties"
They aren't asking us what we think, they are asking us if we are going to join the competition they have now committed to establishing.
Look I'm not stupid enough to think what the NZRU say is what will definitely end up as the end product. But it's hard not to see this as a not-so-subtle attempt to strongarm RA into playing ball with their vision.
And that's fine, it may well work. Or RA may choose not to be involved. It's all on the table still.
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@Kruse said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
https://australia.rugby/news/2020/07/17/rugby-au-statement-nzr-decision
Rugby Australia acknowledges New Zealand Rugby’s preferred position following their announcement today regarding a potential future provincial competition from 2021 and look forward to working constructively with New Zealand Rugby in the coming weeks.
Rugby Australia will also continue its discussions with stakeholders in Australia and is in constant consultation with our valued SANZAAR Joint Venture partners.
Due to impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Rugby Australia recognises that there is a need to review the sustainability and practicality of the current Super Rugby competition and consider alternative models that are in the best interests of Australian Rugby from 2021 and beyond.
Well, at least Rugby Australia understood the whole concept of NZR's announcement, even if (some of) their easily triggered fans did not.
NZR did a study, and released their preferred position. ie: making public their opening position for any discussions and then negotiations to come.
Not being belligerent.
Not even being aggressive.
Not asking Australia to do anything.
Not dictating shit.
Just... "we actually put some thought into this, and this is what we think would be great... how about everybody else, what do you guys envision?"Is that true though? Have you read the statement? Because it hardly reads as 'here is what we think might be nice in future,what do you think guys?'.
For instance, "the NZR board has committed to establishing a new professional team competition in 2021." Pretty black and white there.
Also "We will also be working with Rugby Australia to seek expressions of interest from their current Super clubs and other interested parties"
They aren't asking us what we think, they are asking us if we are going to join the competition they have now committed to establishing.
Look I'm not stupid enough to think what the NZRU say is what will definitely end up as the end product. But it's hard not to see this as a not-so-subtle attempt to strongarm RA into playing ball with their vision.
And that's fine, it may well work. Or RA may choose not to be involved. It's all on the table still.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
And that's fine, it may well work. Or RA may choose not to be involved. It's all on the table still.
Or there may be a middle ground met which is neither this proposal or zero involvement.
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@Kruse said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
https://australia.rugby/news/2020/07/17/rugby-au-statement-nzr-decision
Rugby Australia acknowledges New Zealand Rugby’s preferred position following their announcement today regarding a potential future provincial competition from 2021 and look forward to working constructively with New Zealand Rugby in the coming weeks.
Rugby Australia will also continue its discussions with stakeholders in Australia and is in constant consultation with our valued SANZAAR Joint Venture partners.
Due to impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Rugby Australia recognises that there is a need to review the sustainability and practicality of the current Super Rugby competition and consider alternative models that are in the best interests of Australian Rugby from 2021 and beyond.
Well, at least Rugby Australia understood the whole concept of NZR's announcement, even if (some of) their easily triggered fans did not.
NZR did a study, and released their preferred position. ie: making public their opening position for any discussions and then negotiations to come.
Not being belligerent.
Not even being aggressive.
Not asking Australia to do anything.
Not dictating shit.
Just... "we actually put some thought into this, and this is what we think would be great... how about everybody else, what do you guys envision?"Is that true though? Have you read the statement? Because it hardly reads as 'here is what we think might be nice in future,what do you think guys?'.
For instance, "the NZR board has committed to establishing a new professional team competition in 2021." Pretty black and white there.
Also "We will also be working with Rugby Australia to seek expressions of interest from their current Super clubs and other interested parties"
They aren't asking us what we think, they are asking us if we are going to join the competition they have now committed to establishing.
Look I'm not stupid enough to think what the NZRU say is what will definitely end up as the end product. But it's hard not to see this as a not-so-subtle attempt to strongarm RA into playing ball with their vision.
And that's fine, it may well work. Or RA may choose not to be involved. It's all on the table still.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For instance, "the NZR board has committed to establishing a new professional team competition in 2021." Pretty black and white there.
I read that as... "There's not going to be Super Rugby as it was in the past... but something new, and we are committed to being a part of that"
Nothing more, nothing less. Reading into it "there's going to be a new team competition, and we're going to control it" - is certainly not "black and white".
Yeah - I guess I see where you're coming from with the choice of words... in that it could be interpreted a certain way. But I think if anybody were to do so... they're creating a conflict where none need exist. And I like the fact that Rugby Australia didn't take that approach. -
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For instance, "the NZR board has committed to establishing a new professional team competition in 2021." Pretty black and white there.
I read that as... "There's not going to be Super Rugby as it was in the past... but something new, and we are committed to being a part of that"
Nothing more, nothing less. Reading into it "there's going to be a new team competition, and we're going to control it" - is certainly not "black and white".
Yeah - I guess I see where you're coming from with the choice of words... in that it could be interpreted a certain way. But I think if anybody were to do so... they're creating a conflict where none need exist. And I like the fact that Rugby Australia didn't take that approach.@Kruse said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For instance, "the NZR board has committed to establishing a new professional team competition in 2021." Pretty black and white there.
I read that as... "There's not going to be Super Rugby as it was in the past... but something new, and we are committed to being a part of that"
Nothing more, nothing less. Reading into it "there's going to be a new team competition, and we're going to control it" - is certainly not "black and white".
Yeah - I guess I see where you're coming from with the choice of words... in that it could be interpreted a certain way. But I think if anybody were to do so... they're creating a conflict where none need exist.Is that surprising given the mentality displayed by broadcast commentators, the coach, etc over a period of years?
And I like the fact that Rugby Australia didn't take that approach.
Ditto. Strange what professional administration can look like.
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It's not just the cost of the team. The cost of the travel. The fucking distance. Everything.
And thats IF twiggy puts in coin without a significant say in the deal.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Billy-Tell it's not really about swallowing our pride. You are basically asking us to abandon any hope of every having a rugby presence in a particular state. Is that pride?
Given NZ are being so belligerent i wouldn't be particularly upset if we just didn't participate.
Well the solution is simple; don't. Why does NZR have to continue supporting rugby in Australia?
@antipodean How exactly to NZ support Australian rugby? by deigning to play us? is your perfect world one where only NZ play professional rugby?
