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antipodean

It takes a remarkable amount of hate to get the socialists to defend colonial symbolism. Hypocrites.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="560562" data-time="1456293155">
<div>
It takes a remarkable amount of hate to get the socialists to defend colonial symbolism. Hypocrites.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
This is the part I find fascinating, if this was a Labour government initiative theres no way in hell these people would be trying this line of reasoning in fact they'd be saying the exact opposite . Here's another one using it <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://publicaddress.net/onpoint/yeah-nah-but-what-do-we-stand-for/'>http://publicaddress.net/onpoint/yeah-nah-but-what-do-we-stand-for/</a>

TeWaio

First Stuff comment I have ever found that is interesting and thought-provoking:


<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
 
<div> </div>
<div>I'm a European living here for 10 years, now a proud NZ citizen. I think at it's core, a change of flag will be rejected because this country is essentially a teenager - looks, walks and talks like an adult so it thinks it is one, but it isn't. Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha". The Anzac conflict marking our "emergence as a nation" says it all - we engaged in an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation to please mother England, alongside our Aussie neighbours (with their "very different flag" cough). We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. That's not such a bad thing - we will change the flag someday, but the country isn't ready yet to cut the strings to our colonial past. Nothing wrong with not being ready! Maybe in 50 years things will have changed. For me though, I'd love to say goodbye to the Union Jack and see a national flag I can be proud of.I'm a European living here for 10 years, now a proud NZ citizen. I think at it's core, a change of flag will be rejected because this country is essentially a teenager - looks, walks and talks like an adult so it thinks it is one, but it isn't. Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha". The Anzac conflict marking our "emergence as a nation" says it all - we engaged in an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation to please mother England, alongside our Aussie neighbours (with their "very different flag" cough). We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. That's not such a bad thing - we will change the flag someday, but the country isn't ready yet to cut the strings to our colonial past. Nothing wrong with not being ready! Maybe in 50 years things will have changed. For me though, I'd love to say goodbye to the Union Jack and see a national flag I can be proud of.</div>
</blockquote>
I'm a European living here for 10 years, now a proud NZ citizen. I think at it's core, a change of flag will be rejected because this country is essentially a teenager - looks, walks and talks like an adult so it thinks it is one, but it isn't. Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha". The Anzac conflict marking our "emergence as a nation" says it all - we engaged in an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation to please mother England, alongside our Aussie neighbours (with their "very different flag" cough). We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. That's not such a bad thing - we will change the flag someday, but the country isn't ready yet to cut the strings to our colonial past. Nothing wrong with not being ready! Maybe in 50 years things will have changed. For me though, I'd love to say goodbye to the Union Jack and see a national flag I can be proud of.I'm a European living here for 10 years, now a proud NZ citizen. I think at it's core, a change of flag will be rejected because this country is essentially a teenager - looks, walks and talks like an adult so it thinks it is one, but it isn't. Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha". The Anzac conflict marking our "emergence as a nation" says it all - we engaged in an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation to please mother England, alongside our Aussie neighbours (with their "very different flag" cough). We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. That's not such a bad thing - we will change the flag someday, but the country isn't ready yet to cut the strings to our colonial past. Nothing wrong with not being ready! Maybe in 50 years things will have changed. For me though, I'd love to say goodbye to the Union Jack and see a national flag I can be proud of.

Rembrandt

I've just now realised something. I now actively dislike the current flag. Prior to this whole referendum I would have at worst said I had no feelings either way though more than likely liked the flag but was open to ideas for change. I mean look at it, we've got the british flag on our flag and they've been for years trying to separate from us in favour of their euro buddies. It just looks dated and un-kiwi to me now. 
 
Damn it because it's not going to change so I gotta live with a crap flag now..
ffs John Key!

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TeWaio" data-cid="560593" data-time="1456308914">
<div>
First Stuff comment I have ever found that is interesting and thought-provoking:
 
I'm a European living here for 10 years, now a proud NZ citizen. I think at it's core, a change of flag will be rejected because this country is essentially a teenager - looks, walks and talks like an adult so it thinks it is one, but it isn't. Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha". The Anzac conflict marking our "emergence as a nation" says it all - we engaged in an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation to please mother England, alongside our Aussie neighbours (with their "very different flag" cough). We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. That's not such a bad thing - we will change the flag someday, but the country isn't ready yet to cut the strings to our colonial past. Nothing wrong with not being ready! Maybe in 50 years things will have changed. For me though, I'd love to say goodbye to the Union Jack and see a national flag I can be proud of.I'm a European living here for 10 years, now a proud NZ citizen. I think at it's core, a change of flag will be rejected because this country is essentially a teenager - looks, walks and talks like an adult so it thinks it is one, but it isn't. Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha". The Anzac conflict marking our "emergence as a nation" says it all - we engaged in an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation to please mother England, alongside our Aussie neighbours (with their "very different flag" cough). We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. That's not such a bad thing - we will change the flag someday, but the country isn't ready yet to cut the strings to our colonial past. Nothing wrong with not being ready! Maybe in 50 years things will have changed. For me though, I'd love to say goodbye to the Union Jack and see a national flag I can be proud of.
</div>
</blockquote>
Have you got a link...?

Paekakboyz

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="560605" data-time="1456335219">
<div>
Have you got a link...?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Stuff moderators would have deleted that post by now - far too coherent and not enough ignorance and bile!!
 
They've got a reputation to uphold in Stuff comments!! :whistle:

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Paekakboyz" data-cid="560613" data-time="1456343683">
<div>
Stuff moderators would have deleted that post by now - far too coherent and not enough ignorance and bile!!
 
They've got a reputation to uphold in Stuff comments!! :whistle:
</div>
</blockquote>
He he.
 
Here's another desperate article in favour of the current flag
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11595044'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11595044</a>
 
The current flag is one of the most culturally and historically meaningful flags in the world.
 
Needs one of those Tui "Yeah, right" replies. The whole article comes across as one of those pseudo-intellectual jobs.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TeWaio" data-cid="560593" data-time="1456308914">
<div>
First Stuff comment I have ever found that is interesting and thought-provoking:
 
I'm a European living here for 10 years, now a proud NZ citizen. I think at it's core, a change of flag will be rejected because this country is essentially a teenager - looks, walks and talks like an adult so it thinks it is one, but it isn't. Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha". The Anzac conflict marking our "emergence as a nation" says it all - we engaged in an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation to please mother England, alongside our Aussie neighbours (with their "very different flag" cough). We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. That's not such a bad thing - we will change the flag someday, but the country isn't ready yet to cut the strings to our colonial past. Nothing wrong with not being ready! Maybe in 50 years things will have changed. For me though, I'd love to say goodbye to the Union Jack and see a national flag I can be proud of.I'm a European living here for 10 years, now a proud NZ citizen. I think at it's core, a change of flag will be rejected because this country is essentially a teenager - looks, walks and talks like an adult so it thinks it is one, but it isn't. Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha". The Anzac conflict marking our "emergence as a nation" says it all - we engaged in an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation to please mother England, alongside our Aussie neighbours (with their "very different flag" cough). We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. That's not such a bad thing - we will change the flag someday, but the country isn't ready yet to cut the strings to our colonial past. Nothing wrong with not being ready! Maybe in 50 years things will have changed. For me though, I'd love to say goodbye to the Union Jack and see a national flag I can be proud of.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
that is a great comment. The only thing I'd disagree with though is the teenage. Looking at the comments and general behavior of many of the population around this issue suggests we aren't even into pre-school yet.

Mokey

I'm quite frankly disgusted at the direction the flag debate is going, and the acid being directed at John Key (the whole Key's flag bullshit).
 
By all means say, I just prefer current flag. Say our soldiers died for that flag. But that post link above saying it is one of the most culturally and historically meaningful flags in the world? Oh fuck off. We're in the southern hemisphere and were once a dominion does not make us special or unique in any way.
 
I was always ok with a flag change, but now I really, really hope it happens, as I'm completely comfortable with the blue (closer to National party blue, oh dear god that person needs a fucking uppercut) black, silver fern and southern cross which I think says infinitely more about who we are now as a nation than the union jack.
 
And to those snarling at pro-change high profile kiwis, grow the fuck up. Your bile and attacks and foot stomping are thoroughly embarrassing and make me rather ashamed we share a nationality. But if Canada can weather the storm of bye bye colonial representation, hello symbol that is IMMEDIATELY recognisable as us...so can we.

mariner4life

yea, what Porny McWritesalot said!
 
<img src="http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF-Fabulous-proud-snap-GIF.gif" alt="GIF-Fabulous-proud-snap-GIF.gif">

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="560665" data-time="1456358522">
<div>
that is a great comment. The only thing I'd disagree with though is the teenage. Looking at the comments and general behavior of many of the population around this issue suggests we aren't even into pre-school yet.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I'd actually disagree with the landings in the Dardanelles being an "unprovoked attack" - legitimate target, being Allies of Germany, no?

taniwharugby

there were comments I heard this morning that the black on the proposed flag made it 'depressing'

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="560697" data-time="1456365461">
<div>
I'd actually disagree with the landings in the Dardanelles being an "unprovoked attack" - legitimate target, being Allies of Germany, no?
</div>
</blockquote>
damn straight. It was a good plan too, just completely fucked up on the ground on the first day.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="560700" data-time="1456365567">
<div>
damn straight. It was a good plan too, just completely fucked up on the ground on the first day. 
</div>
</blockquote>
I'd dispute that, but agree they were a legitimate target.
 
I don't think that comment was that great and definitely not thought provoking or interesting:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"> Kiwi's so often tell me they are Dutch or Scottish or Brazilian or whatever place their grandparents came from, and people whose families have been here for generations so willingly accept the moniker of "pakeha"
 
</blockquote>
Lets start off with the first part, acknowledging ancestry doesn't mean not being Kiwi, it's not f-ing zero sum. I'm a Maori, Pakeha, Jewish, Scottish, Portuguese NZer and happy to be so. Secondly, people who have been here for generations are happy to accept a term that defines in a way that is unique to our country yet somehow that's an issue with this 'European'? Piss off.
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
We just don't have a true sense of self-identity yet, which I expect people who grew up here will not like hearing but it is the truth. 
 
</blockquote>
Yes we do, it evolves over time (just like any nation) but it doesn't mean it's not there. I grew up 'here' and do not like hearing bullshit.

Frye

I'll be kind of surprised if the new flag doesn't win.
 
There was almost 1.2 million that voted for a Lockwood design as first preference.
 
There was only 2.4 million votes cast in the last general election.
 
There's a very vocal group who are anti-change, but honestly I'm not even sure that some of them even have the capacity to cast a vote let alone actually have the wherewithal to show up on the day.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="560718" data-time="1456370971">
I'll be kind of surprised if the new flag doesn't win. 
There was almost 1.2 million that voted for a Lockwood design as first preference. 
There was only 2.4 million votes cast in the last general election. 
There's a very vocal group who are anti-change, but honestly I'm not even sure that some of them even have the capacity to cast a vote let alone actually have the wherewithal to show up on the day.</blockquote>
 
You might have a good point there , during the last election if you believed the stuff you read in the media Key was toast. Leftards are very very vocal particularly on social media so it's hard to get a feel on whether they actually are expressing a feeling that widely held or it's just another way of expressing their key derangement syndrome.

jegga

Double post

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="560723" data-time="1456372239">
<div>
Double post
</div>
</blockquote>
I think you deleted both of them???

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="560730" data-time="1456376420">I think you deleted both of them???</blockquote>
 
No the mods did I think. 
I was agreeing with Don Frye, leftards are so vocal online it's hard to know if they actually are a good guage of the public opinion. The last election which he quoted figures from is a great example, you'd have though Key was toast if you believed the stuff that was turning up online. My favourite was every time a poll was mentioned showing something close to the actual results leftards would froth about how the polls were wrong because cellphones . It's no wonder a Key thanked David Farrier , his polls were bang on .

Siam

So what's the actual procedure for voting?
What day?
Where do you vote?
What times is voting open?
 
 
Is it just like a general election (well my last one was early 1990's) where you drag your carcass down to a school or some such, get your name ticked off and then put an "x" somewhere?

The Silver Fern

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