AB Captain
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@booboo said in AB Captain:
If not Cane then who?
Our criteria reading the thread seems to be:
- Must start
- Must play 80
Reading my comments above no player does that any more. I think we need to adjust expectations. How about "Must be guaranteed in top XXIII"? May start, may come off the bench and we will have multiple players capable of calling the shots that we'll call on as required.
I don't agree with 2. If you pick a good vice-captain (or two), there's no reason for the captain to play 80. So, to me, a prop, hooker (or halfback) can be captain. Captain must be in the 23 and I'd prefer him to start, but if he's not starting, the vice-captain must start. So the choice of vice-captain is almost as important as the choice of captain.
@Stargazer said in AB Captain:
@booboo said in AB Captain:
If not Cane then who?
Our criteria reading the thread seems to be:
- Must start
- Must play 80
Reading my comments above no player does that any more. I think we need to adjust expectations. How about "Must be guaranteed in top XXIII"? May start, may come off the bench and we will have multiple players capable of calling the shots that we'll call on as required.
I don't agree with 2. If you pick a good vice-captain (or two), there's no reason for the captain to play 80. So, to me, a prop, hooker (or halfback) can be captain. Captain must be in the 23 and I'd prefer him to start, but if he's not starting, the vice-captain must start. So the choice of vice-captain is almost as important as the choice of captain.
Essentially my point Master Gazer
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@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@Bovidae said in AB Captain:
@booboo said in AB Captain:
If not Cane then who?
Props. None play 80.
And who is a guaranteed starter? Moody?
Not even SR captainsHooker. Again will be subbed.
England with Hartley is the only major team I can remember that subbed their captain. Not ideal.
Didn't Australia do it for a while with Moore? Still not ideal.
Looks especially bad if you have to pull the captain when they are most needed in a tight game.
@Bovidae said in AB Captain:
@Crucial I said major team.
Booboo for the double booboo
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@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
I've never been a fan of the Cane appointment. Completely uninspiring choice and Savea should be the starting openside flanker.
Is that bait or humour? I forget which thread i'm in.
One of the big contributing factors in last year's failures was a lack of dominant tackling. Made even more puzzling by Cane's omission in the semi.
2019
draw v SA - Cane didn't play
loss v Aus - Cane subbed after 50 minutes with Ardie remaining on
loss to England -Cane played the second half with Ardie at 7@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
I've never been a fan of the Cane appointment. Completely uninspiring choice and Savea should be the starting openside flanker.
Is that bait or humour? I forget which thread i'm in.
One of the big contributing factors in last year's failures was a lack of dominant tackling. Made even more puzzling by Cane's omission in the semi.
2019
draw v SA - Cane didn't play
loss v Aus - Cane subbed after 50 minutes with Ardie remaining on
loss to England -Cane played the second half with Ardie at 7Yes we're always hearing about Cane's scary, scary tackling...umm...
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@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
I've never been a fan of the Cane appointment. Completely uninspiring choice and Savea should be the starting openside flanker.
Is that bait or humour? I forget which thread i'm in.
One of the big contributing factors in last year's failures was a lack of dominant tackling. Made even more puzzling by Cane's omission in the semi.
2019
draw v SA - Cane didn't play
loss v Aus - Cane subbed after 50 minutes with Ardie remaining on
loss to England -Cane played the second half with Ardie at 7Yes we're always hearing about Cane's scary, scary tackling...umm...
@shark said in AB Captain:
@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
I've never been a fan of the Cane appointment. Completely uninspiring choice and Savea should be the starting openside flanker.
Is that bait or humour? I forget which thread i'm in.
One of the big contributing factors in last year's failures was a lack of dominant tackling. Made even more puzzling by Cane's omission in the semi.
2019
draw v SA - Cane didn't play
loss v Aus - Cane subbed after 50 minutes with Ardie remaining on
loss to England -Cane played the second half with Ardie at 7Yes we're always hearing about Cane's scary, scary tackling...umm...
Apparently his non selection is the only reason the ABs didn't win the WC in 2019
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@shark said in AB Captain:
@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
I've never been a fan of the Cane appointment. Completely uninspiring choice and Savea should be the starting openside flanker.
Is that bait or humour? I forget which thread i'm in.
One of the big contributing factors in last year's failures was a lack of dominant tackling. Made even more puzzling by Cane's omission in the semi.
2019
draw v SA - Cane didn't play
loss v Aus - Cane subbed after 50 minutes with Ardie remaining on
loss to England -Cane played the second half with Ardie at 7Yes we're always hearing about Cane's scary, scary tackling...umm...
Actually we do hear about him being one of the hardest hitters out there from those he tackles.
Ardie is a top player. Great fighting on his feet and more athletic than Cane but certainly isn’t a hard tackler.
If we find a 6 and 8 that start sitting people down then your argument has more validity -
@shark said in AB Captain:
@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
I've never been a fan of the Cane appointment. Completely uninspiring choice and Savea should be the starting openside flanker.
Is that bait or humour? I forget which thread i'm in.
One of the big contributing factors in last year's failures was a lack of dominant tackling. Made even more puzzling by Cane's omission in the semi.
2019
draw v SA - Cane didn't play
loss v Aus - Cane subbed after 50 minutes with Ardie remaining on
loss to England -Cane played the second half with Ardie at 7Yes we're always hearing about Cane's scary, scary tackling...umm...
Actually we do hear about him being one of the hardest hitters out there from those he tackles.
Ardie is a top player. Great fighting on his feet and more athletic than Cane but certainly isn’t a hard tackler.
If we find a 6 and 8 that start sitting people down then your argument has more validity -
@shark said in AB Captain:
@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
I've never been a fan of the Cane appointment. Completely uninspiring choice and Savea should be the starting openside flanker.
Is that bait or humour? I forget which thread i'm in.
One of the big contributing factors in last year's failures was a lack of dominant tackling. Made even more puzzling by Cane's omission in the semi.
2019
draw v SA - Cane didn't play
loss v Aus - Cane subbed after 50 minutes with Ardie remaining on
loss to England -Cane played the second half with Ardie at 7Yes we're always hearing about Cane's scary, scary tackling...umm...
Actually we do hear about him being one of the hardest hitters out there from those he tackles.
Ardie is a top player. Great fighting on his feet and more athletic than Cane but certainly isn’t a hard tackler.
If we find a 6 and 8 that start sitting people down then your argument has more validity -
@Toddy said in AB Captain:
@Crucial like Ioane, Sotutu, Robinson, Papalii, Frizzel etc.
None of which have proven to do that at top level (yet)
@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@Toddy said in AB Captain:
@Crucial like Ioane, Sotutu, Robinson, Papalii, Frizzel etc.
None of which have proven to do that at top level (yet)
Disagree.
I think SRA is such a high level that if you dominate there, you are likely to do it in tests. The level of rugby pressure and physicality has been off the charts this year, and it exposes weaknesses really quickly.
So, in previous years I'd agree, but now I think that it's way more likely those folk will slide into Tests with no surprises
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So months after demonstrating a lack of physicality, the answer for some of you is to pick a better blindside so the failed RWC semifinal openside flanker can continue to start..?
Ardie's not the best 7, nor the best 6 and certainly not 8. He is however an excellent combination which is why he should be on the bench.
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So months after demonstrating a lack of physicality, the answer for some of you is to pick a better blindside so the failed RWC semifinal openside flanker can continue to start..?
Ardie's not the best 7, nor the best 6 and certainly not 8. He is however an excellent combination which is why he should be on the bench.
@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker because he's supposedly a dominant tackler? Who cares that he has hands like feet and his only link play is on the golf course?
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@Crucial said in AB Captain:
@Toddy said in AB Captain:
@Crucial like Ioane, Sotutu, Robinson, Papalii, Frizzel etc.
None of which have proven to do that at top level (yet)
Disagree.
I think SRA is such a high level that if you dominate there, you are likely to do it in tests. The level of rugby pressure and physicality has been off the charts this year, and it exposes weaknesses really quickly.
So, in previous years I'd agree, but now I think that it's way more likely those folk will slide into Tests with no surprises
@nzzp said in AB Captain:
I think SRA is such a high level that if you dominate there, you are likely to do it in tests
that is a hugely arrogant take on the current status of rugby. Our teams aren't that fucking good. There are still a lot of players who are no more than good running around.
We have a lot of very promising players. Until i see them operating at the 65 minute mark of a tight test at Twickenham or JoBurg I'll reserve judgement.
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@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker because he's supposedly a dominant tackler? Who cares that he has hands like feet and his only link play is on the golf course?
@shark said in AB Captain:
@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker because he's supposedly a dominant tackler? Who cares that he has hands like feet and his only link play is on the golf course?
this is a fresh and interesting angle for you.
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@nzzp said in AB Captain:
I think SRA is such a high level that if you dominate there, you are likely to do it in tests
that is a hugely arrogant take on the current status of rugby. Our teams aren't that fucking good. There are still a lot of players who are no more than good running around.
We have a lot of very promising players. Until i see them operating at the 65 minute mark of a tight test at Twickenham or JoBurg I'll reserve judgement.
@mariner4life really? Have you watched much? I think it's at old Super 12 level, where if you could shine there, you easily made the step up.
The players have been talking about this as well, it's taking days to physically get over the games. No easy games, four weeks in a row, knockout intensity each week. If that doesn't let selectors see who shines, I don't know what does.
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@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker because he's supposedly a dominant tackler? Who cares that he has hands like feet and his only link play is on the golf course?
@shark said in AB Captain:
@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker
No, I've quite clearly said I want Cane. Ardie's not even second best.
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@mariner4life really? Have you watched much? I think it's at old Super 12 level, where if you could shine there, you easily made the step up.
The players have been talking about this as well, it's taking days to physically get over the games. No easy games, four weeks in a row, knockout intensity each week. If that doesn't let selectors see who shines, I don't know what does.
@nzzp said in AB Captain:
@mariner4life really? Have you watched much? I think it's at old Super 12 level, where if you could shine there, you easily made the step up.
The players have been talking about this as well, it's taking days to physically get over the games. No easy games, four weeks in a row, knockout intensity each week. If that doesn't let selectors see who shines, I don't know what does.
it absolutely does give you a pretty good gauge. But it's only a gauge. How many players have shone at Super level and never stepped it up at test level?
Top level test rugby is a different game again to even these games. It's brutal trench warfare at the moment.
And when compared to the days of Super Rugby, there are better test teams out there than there were then, international depth and quality is far higher.
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how many WC's did we win during Super 12?
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@shark said in AB Captain:
@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker
No, I've quite clearly said I want Cane. Ardie's not even second best.
@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker
No, I've quite clearly said I want Cane. Ardie's not even second best.
Yes, so you have quite clearly said you want the #2.
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@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker
No, I've quite clearly said I want Cane. Ardie's not even second best.
Yes, so you have quite clearly said you want the #2.
@shark said in AB Captain:
@antipodean said in AB Captain:
@shark said in AB Captain:
@antipodean And you'd prefer to select the second best openside flanker
No, I've quite clearly said I want Cane. Ardie's not even second best.
Yes, so you have quite clearly said you want the #2.
Let's try this a different way. Instead of relying on mere assertion; why do you think Ardie is a better Test level openside flanker?
