Investing - Property/Shares
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@mariner4life said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@NTA they're not that much far in front of everyone else. Chinese battery tech is bloody good. Hyundai make good electric cars. Tesla is a mini bubble
and with the rumours that apple and hyundai are going to get into bed together for an electric car this space will be interesting, increased Hyundai share price 20% when they just said they were talking..
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@NTA said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Throw in the massive missteps by companies like Volkswagen and the refusal of some OEM to change rapidly (looking at Toyota and their "self-charging" hybrids), and it is not beyond complete insanity to put Tesla at the top of the pile by a long way.
Looking to go plug-in hybrid or all electric this year. The most realistic options are Kia or Hyundai. May go for an eNiro but there's a 6-12 month waiting list for some models. Nothing really available from Germany unless you're looking at £60k+ - but loads of "visions" of possible future cars.
Imagine situation will change in the next 12 months or so.
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@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy yeah doing the numbers I think we could handle it financially, but I just dont htink I want the headache, plenty of variables, including P...think I'll just keep smashing away on my mortgage and chucking money at my kiwisaver for now.
You could get a manager to manage a property for you. I know it costs but it takes away the stress and hassle
That’s what I’ve got for my rental. I’m fucked if I’m gonna muck around sorting a leaky tap or new washing machine !
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@MN5 said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@canefan said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@taniwharugby said in Happiness Scale:
@Snowy yeah doing the numbers I think we could handle it financially, but I just dont htink I want the headache, plenty of variables, including P...think I'll just keep smashing away on my mortgage and chucking money at my kiwisaver for now.
You could get a manager to manage a property for you. I know it costs but it takes away the stress and hassle
That’s what I’ve got for my rental. I’m fucked if I’m gonna muck around sorting a leaky tap or new washing machine !
Yeah, If you have too much stuff to worry about, it can seriously affect your happiness level. Apart from decent wine, where the opposite applies.
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@Victor-Meldrew Or institutionals surfing the sentiment of fans to the top of the market. I wouldn't be buying to hold. Such profit as it has had are due largely to the sale of EV regulatory credits as far as I can see. Selling them is pure profit. But I'm not sure its a sustainable business model.
As far as battery tech is concerned there seems to be other players like StoreDot who have more promising results:
StoreDot | Charging the EV lifestyle
StoreDot is a pioneer of extreme fast charging (XFC) EV batteries that overcome the critical barrier to mainstream EV adoption – range and charging anxiety.
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@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
My view on the cars, as a car nut, is that the are actually quite shit. The handling is average at best, the wear on them is horrific, and they date really badly. They go like shit off a shovel off the mark though, and they are extremely trendy. If you compare a 2014 Model S to pretty much so any similar priced model of that year, the Tesla looks the worst.
I've seen a few reviews of the Model 3 versus something Euro in the same area (like an M3) and generally it is competitive in the reviewer's eyes.
A fair few also say the Model 3 is well ahead of the Model S in terms of overall performance and handling. Must be the weight - around 500kg lighter than the S across each model.
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@MajorRage I made your final point to my 10yr old daughter a week or so ago as she admired some wealthy friends of ours and their new Model X.
Here in good old Straya, I said, we still get 75% of our power from coal. So they are probably actually adding to our emissions rather than reducing them...
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@mariner4life said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Can someone explain to me how suddenly Tesla is worth more than every other car company combined?
FOMO. There's literally no other reason for the stock price.
Anyone thinking their battery technology is worth such a ridiculous valuation is ignoring that most of the IP is actually owned by their partners and smaller university backed companies are doing more interesting, ground breaking things.
The EPS of the stock is ludicrous. It's like muppets think Tesla is going to dominate the automobile industry. Now that all the other real manufacturers are stepping into the EV market, Tesla will remain a niche for people who don't know what quality is.
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@NTA said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
So they are probably actually adding to our emissions rather than reducing them...
You of all people on here should know that simply isn't true
Ha ha, was certainly being a bit facetious - and these friends have actually gone the whole hog with solar panels, battery and charging station, so they're doing their part. But also good to get her thinking, and understanding that an EV is only part of the solution. Especially at 200k per pop...
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@NTA said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
My view on the cars, as a car nut, is that the are actually quite shit. The handling is average at best, the wear on them is horrific, and they date really badly. They go like shit off a shovel off the mark though, and they are extremely trendy. If you compare a 2014 Model S to pretty much so any similar priced model of that year, the Tesla looks the worst.
I've seen a few reviews of the Model 3 versus something Euro in the same area (like an M3) and generally it is competitive in the reviewer's eyes.
A fair few also say the Model 3 is well ahead of the Model S in terms of overall performance and handling. Must be the weight - around 500kg lighter than the S across each model.
I tried out a Model X when I was in the market last time and took it from Napier to Taupo. On the twisty uphill parts (apart from the straights) it wasn't much fun. I have that M3 engine in my car and emissions or not it is a beautiful, beautiful thing. If it was a girl I'd be showing it my etchings.
Back on topic though, if Apple's car rumors are true and if they can get the aesthetics and desirability right they're going to be a profit mill for some time yet. I'm intending to dip in some more when they drop off their earnings hype peak and hold them. I've been accumulating a few since I bought my first iBook and they've done me pretty well.
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@JC said in Investing - Property/Shares:
tried out a Model X when I was in the market last time and took it from Napier to Taupo. On the twisty uphill parts (apart from the straights) it wasn't much fun
Even heavier than the S! I never got the model X as a concept, but I'm not an American who needs 7 seats and likes gull wing doors
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@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
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@NTA said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
My view on the cars, as a car nut, is that the are actually quite shit. The handling is average at best, the wear on them is horrific, and they date really badly. They go like shit off a shovel off the mark though, and they are extremely trendy. If you compare a 2014 Model S to pretty much so any similar priced model of that year, the Tesla looks the worst.
I've seen a few reviews of the Model 3 versus something Euro in the same area (like an M3) and generally it is competitive in the reviewer's eyes.
A fair few also say the Model 3 is well ahead of the Model S in terms of overall performance and handling. Must be the weight - around 500kg lighter than the S across each model.
I've not driven one for a few years now, but I've had a go behind the Roadster, Model S 70, Model S P90 & Model X. The roadster was the fastest acceleration I've ever felt, but was so bad in the corners it was laughable. The Model S 70 was such an impressive piece of kit but the build quality was rubbish. The 90 was as quick as the roadster, and I really loved it, but the price tag on it was nuts. Didn't like the Model X.
The one thing they all had in common though, was they all felt completely soul less.
I'm an old man these days though and don't mind being stuck in my ways. It appears I'm not alone too, as EV residuals are plummeting whilst 2nd hand 911's are currently going up. A buddy of mine works at the local Porsche dealership and said 2020 sales were the highest they'd had on record. They've got the Taycan now, I had drive day sorted but it got canned due to Covid unfortunately. The sales guy reckons it's amazing, it's incredible & it's mind blowing. But it's not, or even close to as good as, a 911.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
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@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
2 entirely different qns obviously.
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
As to power generation, its not so simple to say more EVs = more electricity demand. Its about a completely different approach to electricity. Here in Oz we have a legacy setup of massive coal fired generation and power lines distributing that all the way along the eastern seaboard. Now we see a move to to distributed generation, where not only smaller power plants (almost all renewable) exist closer to loads, but also homes generating large portions of their power requirements. EVs can draw power from installed home batteries, and can act as a supplier of power when not being used. They're massive batteries at the end of the day.
The challenges are in some way technical, but really more about displacing the incumbents and the existing infrastructure.
I don't think we have a supply issue, just a big adjustment to make.
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@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra?
Saw an article covering just that, today:
Shell buys Ubitricity, UK's largest EV charging network
Shell acquires 100% of Ubitricity, the UK’s largest public EV charging network. The oil giant will release its net zero strategy in February.
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@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
2 entirely different qns obviously.
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
As to power generation, its not so simple to say more EVs = more electricity demand. Its about a completely different approach to electricity. Here in Oz we have a legacy setup of massive coal fired generation and power lines distributing that all the way along the eastern seaboard. Now we see a move to to distributed generation, where not only smaller power plants (almost all renewable) exist closer to loads, but also homes generating large portions of their power requirements. EVs can draw power from installed home batteries, and can act as a supplier of power when not being used. They're massive batteries at the end of the day.
The challenges are in some way technical, but really more about displacing the incumbents and the existing infrastructure.
I don't think we have a supply issue, just a big adjustment to make.
With all due respect, Australia sales of electric cars aren't going to be any real driver of anything. Energy sources down there are abundant.
I'm talking more Europe, China & US.
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@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
2 entirely different qns obviously.
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
As to power generation, its not so simple to say more EVs = more electricity demand. Its about a completely different approach to electricity. Here in Oz we have a legacy setup of massive coal fired generation and power lines distributing that all the way along the eastern seaboard. Now we see a move to to distributed generation, where not only smaller power plants (almost all renewable) exist closer to loads, but also homes generating large portions of their power requirements. EVs can draw power from installed home batteries, and can act as a supplier of power when not being used. They're massive batteries at the end of the day.
The challenges are in some way technical, but really more about displacing the incumbents and the existing infrastructure.
I don't think we have a supply issue, just a big adjustment to make.
With all due respect, Australia sales of electric cars aren't going to be any real driver of anything. Energy sources down there are abundant.
I'm talking more Europe, China & US.
You'll have to be more offensive than that to disrespect me
Europe is going through a transition for sure as it figures out what to do with nuclear, offshore wind, and a resurgence of thermal (gas) power. But China and the US really have no shortage of generation sources. China is developing renewables faster than any other country, again, its not a tech issue, its a desire issue. For them its more about security of supply than saving the environment, but the result is the same. Equally the US has plenty of resources available. They're really not that different to Australia, just on a much bigger scale.
And all of those countries will benefit from the points I mentioned earlier. As the grid gets smarter, EV's can help to smooth loads, power homes at certain times. Its not just a new, big drain on the power supply.
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@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@voodoo said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Investing - Property/Shares:
@MajorRage said in Investing - Property/Shares:
Give up sleep more often - that's a great and informative post.Oh, it may be worth also looking at the future of electricity. It's something that seems to have gone un noticed that I'd look into. What will x million electric cars do to power supply?
I'd invest in companies rolling out the fast-charge stations. Going to be a bread and butter business sector, with a stable user base and a lot of start-ups will get snapped up by the big boys.
But where do they get the power from? Thats the question I have.
2 entirely different qns obviously.
As to the charging stations, I'd say they remain a pretty risky investment. How do you protect against a major petrol co adding their own to their existing infra? Or the roadside cafes doing the same. Or Tesla rolling out their own in a deal with Coles, Wooli, Tescos etc. I just don't see how you can pick a winner there with any confidence?
As to power generation, its not so simple to say more EVs = more electricity demand. Its about a completely different approach to electricity. Here in Oz we have a legacy setup of massive coal fired generation and power lines distributing that all the way along the eastern seaboard. Now we see a move to to distributed generation, where not only smaller power plants (almost all renewable) exist closer to loads, but also homes generating large portions of their power requirements. EVs can draw power from installed home batteries, and can act as a supplier of power when not being used. They're massive batteries at the end of the day.
The challenges are in some way technical, but really more about displacing the incumbents and the existing infrastructure.
I don't think we have a supply issue, just a big adjustment to make.
With all due respect, Australia sales of electric cars aren't going to be any real driver of anything. Energy sources down there are abundant.
I'm talking more Europe, China & US.
You'll have to be more offensive than that to disrespect me
Europe is going through a transition for sure as it figures out what to do with nuclear, offshore wind, and a resurgence of thermal (gas) power. But China and the US really have no shortage of generation sources. China is developing renewables faster than any other country, again, its not a tech issue, its a desire issue. For them its more about security of supply than saving the environment, but the result is the same. Equally the US has plenty of resources available. They're really not that different to Australia, just on a much bigger scale.
And all of those countries will benefit from the points I mentioned earlier. As the grid gets smarter, EV's can help to smooth loads, power homes at certain times. Its not just a new, big drain on the power supply.
I'll never profess to be an expert on this stuff but I will say this.
Either electric cars use more power or they don't. Smoothing loads / powering homes is all nice and box ticking, but it still must draw the electricity from somewhere.
