All Blacks 2021
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
I not sure who best coach is, but maintain we sitting here watching tv and writing on rugby forums probably wouldn't really be the best to know either. I am not convinced either way after last year, but what result would we rather have, Foster's or rennie's who many thought was also the answer. The reason I tend to support whoever is in charge maybe because I have been in the position everywhere from schoolboy , to club, JAB provincial reps through to actually provincial coach where I was on board that appointed the coaches. Like everything else almost everytime there were people who knew better than me, and could tell me why such and such shouldn't be coach. You know funnily enough like us, they were never in a position to know what was required, what each person bought to the interview, etc etc. As I say I not sure I Fozzie should be doing job, but I do say one thing, I think our standards may of dropped (though hard to tell last year) but one of things I have a suspicion is our skill level has dropped a bit in NZ, and that is not going to be fixed at ABs, but a lot lower than that. How many times over last year have we watched games where we are gobsmacked by the passig etc skills of our super players, one of our dtrengthys used to be we could set up a blindside attack with 3-4 players in 5m channel by touchline and beat defenders by quick passing etc. It's not happening.
Maybe, but the lack of worry about losing to Argentina from the Coaches and even worse, the press, is more of an issue. The constant pressure on coaches and players to perform and maintain the All Black legacy is why we have the record we do.
As soon as we stop being result orientated and start looking at fluffy shit like culture then we on the road to being as shit as Wales.
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
I not sure who best coach is, but maintain we sitting here watching tv and writing on rugby forums probably wouldn't really be the best to know either. I am not convinced either way after last year, but what result would we rather have, Foster's or rennie's who many thought was also the answer. The reason I tend to support whoever is in charge maybe because I have been in the position everywhere from schoolboy , to club, JAB provincial reps through to actually provincial coach where I was on board that appointed the coaches. Like everything else almost everytime there were people who knew better than me, and could tell me why such and such shouldn't be coach. You know funnily enough like us, they were never in a position to know what was required, what each person bought to the interview, etc etc. As I say I not sure I Fozzie should be doing job, but I do say one thing, I think our standards may of dropped (though hard to tell last year) but one of things I have a suspicion is our skill level has dropped a bit in NZ, and that is not going to be fixed at ABs, but a lot lower than that. How many times over last year have we watched games where we are gobsmacked by the passig etc skills of our super players, one of our dtrengthys used to be we could set up a blindside attack with 3-4 players in 5m channel by touchline and beat defenders by quick passing etc. It's not happening.
Maybe, but the lack of worry about losing to Argentina from the Coaches and even worse, the press, is more of an issue. The constant pressure on coaches and players to perform and maintain the All Black legacy is why we have the record we do.
As soon as we stop being result orientated and start looking at fluffy shit like culture then we on the road to being as shit as Wales.
Am I allowed to like both posts?
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Did anyone else watch the breakdown and feel that when Ardie says he is focusing on 8, it's about the same as when my wife says she's on a diet?
@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
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@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
Exactly (and I agree he should be on the bench), but that wasn't the question, which was 'where do you want to play?'
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@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
Exactly (and I agree he should be on the bench), but that wasn't the question, which was 'where do you want to play?'
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
Exactly (and I agree he should be on the bench), but that wasn't the question, which was 'where do you want to play?'
he's in a hell of a pickle. He's probably our second best 7 and 8, and arguably our second or third best 6. An amazing rugby player, but going to struggle to start while Cane is captain and Hos is around. Could pivot to being a phenomenal 'closer' (ugh, bench player) as his only route to the 23
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@kiwimurph meh. Couldn't even make it into double figures.
@bones They did though
they finished the season with 10 wins from 14 games. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
Exactly (and I agree he should be on the bench), but that wasn't the question, which was 'where do you want to play?'
he's in a hell of a pickle. He's probably our second best 7 and 8, and arguably our second or third best 6. An amazing rugby player, but going to struggle to start while Cane is captain and Hos is around. Could pivot to being a phenomenal 'closer' (ugh, bench player) as his only route to the 23
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
Exactly (and I agree he should be on the bench), but that wasn't the question, which was 'where do you want to play?'
he's in a hell of a pickle. He's probably our second best 7 and 8, and arguably our second or third best 6. An amazing rugby player, but going to struggle to start while Cane is captain and Hos is around. Could pivot to being a phenomenal 'closer' (ugh, bench player) as his only route to the 23
sounds like the perfect definition of a super sub,
i thought we were kind of getting past the insult of coming off the bench, that 16 isn;t just the second best hooker, might actually be the best lineout thrower and you want them on at the death, 22 isn't some generic utility player, they might be a sharp shooter to nail the drop goal or penalty to win it
I love to see ardie running at tiring front rowers...but not necessarily just smashing himself against and organised and fresh defense
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
Exactly (and I agree he should be on the bench), but that wasn't the question, which was 'where do you want to play?'
he's in a hell of a pickle. He's probably our second best 7 and 8, and arguably our second or third best 6. An amazing rugby player, but going to struggle to start while Cane is captain and Hos is around. Could pivot to being a phenomenal 'closer' (ugh, bench player) as his only route to the 23
sounds like the perfect definition of a super sub,
i thought we were kind of getting past the insult of coming off the bench, that 16 isn;t just the second best hooker, might actually be the best lineout thrower and you want them on at the death, 22 isn't some generic utility player, they might be a sharp shooter to nail the drop goal or penalty to win it
I love to see ardie running at tiring front rowers...but not necessarily just smashing himself against and organised and fresh defense
@kiwiwomble Yep agree, Ardies best position is Super Sub, and he’d be a vital cog in the AB machine doing that - like he used to be. But players want to start I guess.
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@kiwiwomble Yep agree, Ardies best position is Super Sub, and he’d be a vital cog in the AB machine doing that - like he used to be. But players want to start I guess.
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble Yep agree, Ardies best position is Super Sub, and he’d be a vital cog in the AB machine doing that - like he used to be. But players want to start I guess.
Players should do as they are told and what is best for the team.
Ardie is not a test match #8
Unless we develop a new plan that plays to his strengths and hides his weaknesses (@ACT-Crusader 's back to the future rodders plan)
Either pick the players, and mould tur game plan to suit their strengths, or pick.the plan, and then the best players to execute. From.the outside it often looks like we do a little of each.
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@kiwiwomble Yep agree, Ardies best position is Super Sub, and he’d be a vital cog in the AB machine doing that - like he used to be. But players want to start I guess.
@nepia slight tangent, i just watched a youtube clip of beaudens best moments, almost all of them in the black jersey he was wearing 22, came on and tore apart tiring defences
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@kiwiwomble Yep agree, Ardies best position is Super Sub, and he’d be a vital cog in the AB machine doing that - like he used to be. But players want to start I guess.
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble Yep agree, Ardies best position is Super Sub, and he’d be a vital cog in the AB machine doing that - like he used to be.
But would Ardie come on to play 6 or 8?
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble Yep agree, Ardies best position is Super Sub, and he’d be a vital cog in the AB machine doing that - like he used to be. But players want to start I guess.
Players should do as they are told and what is best for the team.
Ardie is not a test match #8
Unless we develop a new plan that plays to his strengths and hides his weaknesses (@ACT-Crusader 's back to the future rodders plan)
Either pick the players, and mould tur game plan to suit their strengths, or pick.the plan, and then the best players to execute. From.the outside it often looks like we do a little of each.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
@winger said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
he did.
Height. You need another lineout option. A tall 6 helps, but a fourth option is important too. Ardie's awesome, but lacking height
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@winger said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
he did.
Height. You need another lineout option. A tall 6 helps, but a fourth option is important too. Ardie's awesome, but lacking height
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@nzzp Not when he has got the 22mm springs in, then he must be towering over the 2.00m height.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
@winger said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
He's great against teams like Oz, but would not be very effective against larger packs like England and SA at eight. He would be my seven though.
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Good coaches can have bad seasons, Joseph in 2013? His third year in charge and got the record number of losses, won it two years after that
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
Good coaches can have bad seasons, Joseph in 2013? His third year in charge and got the record number of losses, won it two years after that
But did he make the team much better after his first two seasons? Yes. So my point stands.
Good coaches can have bad seasons, if injuries take over etc. Bad coaches can have good seasons when things click (Foster made the finals once). But they revert to form pretty quickly.
Can you find me an example of a coach who did not improve his team in the first two years, but then went on to be a good coach? I suppose there are some, but it will be slim pickings. Joseph was unusual in taking a long time to get his Super victory because if they haven't won it by their second year they pretty much never will . But he started a long way back compared to most coaches, and his trajectory was up from the start.
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@winger said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
he did.
Height. You need another lineout option. A tall 6 helps, but a fourth option is important too. Ardie's awesome, but lacking height
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@winger said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
he did.
Height. You need another lineout option. A tall 6 helps, but a fourth option is important too. Ardie's awesome, but lacking height
Agree that he short (1.88) but not Blackwell short as a lock. And if the balance of the forwards is right I don't see an issue.
And is Sotutu too short for an AB 6 (1.92).
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@winger said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
he did.
Height. You need another lineout option. A tall 6 helps, but a fourth option is important too. Ardie's awesome, but lacking height
Agree that he short (1.88) but not Blackwell short as a lock. And if the balance of the forwards is right I don't see an issue.
And is Sotutu too short for an AB 6 (1.92).
lineouts are not all about hight. if it was Devin Toner would be the best lock of all time.
Although it does help to be tall...Ardie was excellent in 8 last season and he is too good to not start. and he seems to work fine in the lineouts.
It's unfortunate for Hoskins but you cant not start Ardie.
