All Blacks 2021
-
lineouts are not all about hight. if it was Devin Toner would be the best lock of all time.
Although it does help to be tall...Ardie was excellent in 8 last season and he is too good to not start. and he seems to work fine in the lineouts.
It's unfortunate for Hoskins but you cant not start Ardie.
@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:
lineouts are not all about hight. if it was Devin Toner would be the best lock of all time.
Although it does help to be tall...Ardie was excellent in 8 last season and he is too good to not start. and he seems to work fine in the lineouts.
It's unfortunate for Hoskins but you cant not start Ardie.
It sure does help to be tall. Someone put it well here, that height doesn't matter until it does. Basically a small difference to the other jumper is 'meh', but as soon as that gets up it becomes a problem. Against Australia with the Pooper, shorter players are no issue. Conventional packs like England, though, emphasise the difference.
Ardie is and was an excellent rugby player. But if you think he should be picked ahead of Hos, I'm happy to cheerfully argue that for quite some time. Sotutu is not the finished product, but his 'ceiling' at 8 is higher than Ardie, and I think he's well on the way there.
I'd sooner argue that Ardie's a better 7 than Cane. Cane is a magnificent player, but not a conventional 7 ... if you are looking for individual pilfering, Ardie's your man. Except Cane's captain, and puts in defensive efforts that are nek level. So you're squeezing Ardie in.
Honestly, I like him on the bench to destroy teams in the back part of the game.
-
@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:
lineouts are not all about hight. if it was Devin Toner would be the best lock of all time.
Although it does help to be tall...Ardie was excellent in 8 last season and he is too good to not start. and he seems to work fine in the lineouts.
It's unfortunate for Hoskins but you cant not start Ardie.
It sure does help to be tall. Someone put it well here, that height doesn't matter until it does. Basically a small difference to the other jumper is 'meh', but as soon as that gets up it becomes a problem. Against Australia with the Pooper, shorter players are no issue. Conventional packs like England, though, emphasise the difference.
Ardie is and was an excellent rugby player. But if you think he should be picked ahead of Hos, I'm happy to cheerfully argue that for quite some time. Sotutu is not the finished product, but his 'ceiling' at 8 is higher than Ardie, and I think he's well on the way there.
I'd sooner argue that Ardie's a better 7 than Cane. Cane is a magnificent player, but not a conventional 7 ... if you are looking for individual pilfering, Ardie's your man. Except Cane's captain, and puts in defensive efforts that are nek level. So you're squeezing Ardie in.
Honestly, I like him on the bench to destroy teams in the back part of the game.
@nzzp yes I agree that ardie is a better 7. The best option really would be to remove cane from captain... I know he is old but I think whitelock should he captain.
A captain needs to comand respect and demand victory and I am just not sure cane can do that.
But unfortunately you should never remove a player from captaincy unless he does something really dumb.
-
@winger said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
Ardie is not a test match #8
Based on what?
He played very well at 8 in the tests last year
He's great against teams like Oz, but would not be very effective against larger packs like England and SA at eight. He would be my seven though.
@kirwan i think this is a bit out of date. Our pack is pretty big these days and we never really got out muscled by you blokes last year. I also thought Ardie was pretty ineffective, particularly against the Argies. He makes good post contact metres... And that's kind of it. Cane a far superior test flanker.
You blokes minced us out back, particularly in Sydney. That's where the biggest mismatches are.
-
@kirwan i think this is a bit out of date. Our pack is pretty big these days and we never really got out muscled by you blokes last year. I also thought Ardie was pretty ineffective, particularly against the Argies. He makes good post contact metres... And that's kind of it. Cane a far superior test flanker.
You blokes minced us out back, particularly in Sydney. That's where the biggest mismatches are.
@derpus said in All Blacks 2021:
You blokes minced us out back, particularly in Sydney. That's where the biggest mismatches are.
I still shudder at the demolition job England did on us in the QF. Remember, the starting 8 were
Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Scott Barrett, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.
An out of form 8
A quality 7
A lock playing at 6
A lock running on fumes
A lock coming back from injury
A front row with a world class 2, and two props who (I think) underperformed.then you got to the bench
Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Angus Ta'avao, Patrick Tuipulotu, Sam Cane,'nuff said. Angus. Fark. And Sam not starting... I am so triggered right now
-
@derpus said in All Blacks 2021:
You blokes minced us out back, particularly in Sydney. That's where the biggest mismatches are.
I still shudder at the demolition job England did on us in the QF. Remember, the starting 8 were
Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Scott Barrett, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.
An out of form 8
A quality 7
A lock playing at 6
A lock running on fumes
A lock coming back from injury
A front row with a world class 2, and two props who (I think) underperformed.then you got to the bench
Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Angus Ta'avao, Patrick Tuipulotu, Sam Cane,'nuff said. Angus. Fark. And Sam not starting... I am so triggered right now
-
@derpus said in All Blacks 2021:
You blokes minced us out back, particularly in Sydney. That's where the biggest mismatches are.
I still shudder at the demolition job England did on us in the QF. Remember, the starting 8 were
Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Scott Barrett, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.
An out of form 8
A quality 7
A lock playing at 6
A lock running on fumes
A lock coming back from injury
A front row with a world class 2, and two props who (I think) underperformed.then you got to the bench
Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Angus Ta'avao, Patrick Tuipulotu, Sam Cane,'nuff said. Angus. Fark. And Sam not starting... I am so triggered right now
-
@derpus said in All Blacks 2021:
You blokes minced us out back, particularly in Sydney. That's where the biggest mismatches are.
I still shudder at the demolition job England did on us in the QF. Remember, the starting 8 were
Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Scott Barrett, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.
An out of form 8
A quality 7
A lock playing at 6
A lock running on fumes
A lock coming back from injury
A front row with a world class 2, and two props who (I think) underperformed.then you got to the bench
Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Angus Ta'avao, Patrick Tuipulotu, Sam Cane,'nuff said. Angus. Fark. And Sam not starting... I am so triggered right now
-
@nzzp We had a pretty ordinary team on the pitch for the final 30 minutes.
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp We had a pretty ordinary team on the pitch for the final 30 minutes.
The damage was done in the first 30 while Sam was reading comics on the bench.
-
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
I still shudder at the demolition job England did on us in the QF.SF
-
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp We had a pretty ordinary team on the pitch for the final 30 minutes.
The damage was done in the first 30 while Sam was reading comics on the bench.
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp We had a pretty ordinary team on the pitch for the final 30 minutes.
The damage was done in the first 30 while Sam was reading comics on the bench.
True - but, when you looked around that team toward the end, you couldn't really see where we would pull something out of the fire.
Not enough genuine weapons.
-
@derpus said in All Blacks 2021:
You blokes minced us out back, particularly in Sydney. That's where the biggest mismatches are.
I still shudder at the demolition job England did on us in the QF. Remember, the starting 8 were
Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Scott Barrett, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.
An out of form 8
A quality 7
A lock playing at 6
A lock running on fumes
A lock coming back from injury
A front row with a world class 2, and two props who (I think) underperformed.then you got to the bench
Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Angus Ta'avao, Patrick Tuipulotu, Sam Cane,'nuff said. Angus. Fark. And Sam not starting... I am so triggered right now
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@derpus said in All Blacks 2021:
You blokes minced us out back, particularly in Sydney. That's where the biggest mismatches are.
I still shudder at the demolition job England did on us in the QF. Remember, the starting 8 were
Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Scott Barrett, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.
An out of form 8
A quality 7
A lock playing at 6
A lock running on fumes
A lock coming back from injury
A front row with a world class 2, and two props who (I think) underperformed.then you got to the bench
Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Angus Ta'avao, Patrick Tuipulotu, Sam Cane,'nuff said. Angus. Fark. And Sam not starting... I am so triggered right now
Former world class 2, I think you mean. He was close to our best player in 2018, but was complete dogs hit in 2019 and particularly in that match
-
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp We had a pretty ordinary team on the pitch for the final 30 minutes.
The damage was done in the first 30 while Sam was reading comics on the bench.
True - but, when you looked around that team toward the end, you couldn't really see where we would pull something out of the fire.
Not enough genuine weapons.
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp We had a pretty ordinary team on the pitch for the final 30 minutes.
The damage was done in the first 30 while Sam was reading comics on the bench.
True - but, when you looked around that team toward the end, you couldn't really see where we would pull something out of the fire.
Not enough genuine weapons.
With the English attacks in the first 30 blunted we wouldn’t need to pull anything out of the fire - we could have just built the win, like we did when we beat the eventual champions in pool play.
-
Reckon this goes here rather than the Chief's thread. Hopefully haven't #booboo'ed myself.
Don't akways bother with these player interview pieces but enjoyed this one.
-
And Vaa'i is NZ-born so no accusations of poaching another player from the Pacific Islands.
-
@bovidae that's never stopped the accusations before. The accusations seemed to have slowed down though, correlating with other nations having their share of PI talent now?
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2021:
@bovidae that's never stopped the accusations before. The accusations seemed to have slowed down though, correlating with other nations having their share of PI talent now?
Agree to a point. The Walrus and his ilk still like to perpetuate the myth when they can, usually around RWC time.
-
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2021:
@bovidae that's never stopped the accusations before. The accusations seemed to have slowed down though, correlating with other nations having their share of PI talent now?
Agree to a point. The Walrus and his ilk still like to perpetuate the myth when they can, usually around RWC time.
@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2021:
@bovidae that's never stopped the accusations before. The accusations seemed to have slowed down though, correlating with other nations having their share of PI talent now?
Agree to a point. The Walrus and his ilk still like to perpetuate the myth when they can, usually around RWC time.
Blackbirded his parents didn t we?
-
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp We had a pretty ordinary team on the pitch for the final 30 minutes.
The damage was done in the first 30 while Sam was reading comics on the bench.
True - but, when you looked around that team toward the end, you couldn't really see where we would pull something out of the fire.
Not enough genuine weapons.
With the English attacks in the first 30 blunted we wouldn’t need to pull anything out of the fire - we could have just built the win, like we did when we beat the eventual champions in pool play.
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp We had a pretty ordinary team on the pitch for the final 30 minutes.
The damage was done in the first 30 while Sam was reading comics on the bench.
True - but, when you looked around that team toward the end, you couldn't really see where we would pull something out of the fire.
Not enough genuine weapons.
With the English attacks in the first 30 blunted we wouldn’t need to pull anything out of the fire - we could have just built the win, like we did when we beat the eventual champions in pool play.
Sam wasn't reading comics in the first 30 - he was teaching Helen Keller to read and write!
-
And Vaa'i is NZ-born so no accusations of poaching another player from the Pacific Islands.
-
Ofa cost the game against the Aussies a few months ago. His bad habits are a problem, but the ABs have only two THPs of international calibre so he should keep on be selected again and again. Lomax is not yet ready, Angus T and Fidow cannot scrum while Jager is irish and Moli always injured (and seen as a LHP). It's urgent to give Newell and T. Williams some game time.
@cgrant said in Blues v Crusaders:
Ofa cost the game against the Aussies a few months ago. His bad habits are a problem, but the ABs have only two THPs of international calibre so he should keep on be selected again and again. Lomax is not yet ready, Angus T and Fidow cannot scrum while Jager is irish and Moli always injured (and seen as a LHP). It's urgent to give Newell and T. Williams some game time.
Fletcher Newell is already a great scrummager despite his youth and inexperience, and is going to get much better as he develops. I predict he will be an All Black sooner rather than later, for the reasons you cite. Our depth at TH is poor.
