All Blacks 2021

Bovidae

@snowy said in All Blacks 2021:

@bovidae Still enough you reckon? I don't.

33 allows you to select 2 full teams plus 3 others, likely a hooker, halfback and another player. Before you might compromise in some positions (e.g., outside backs) to have your third hooker and halfback in the squad. Remember there was a good chance DMac would have filled that 3rd halfback position in Japan before his injury.

Understand why they have it but it doesn't get our best players on the field in the correct positions, nor many other countries.

Coaches will always want a larger squad but the increase in squad size favours the stronger teams who have more depth. I think coaches try to be too cute with their reserves. For example, having 2 loose forwards on the bench or the 6:2 split, which seems to be popular now.

Mackerzzzz

@chris said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

Do people reckon retalick will walk straight into the all blacks squad?

Straight back into the starting XV. We missed his aggression and hard edge last year.

Who would you kick from the squad then?

I thought whitelock but he is likely to captan so...
Tuipulotu?

Whatttt Whitelock has been the best Lock in SR, no way is he being dropped.Even he isn't Captain.

I agree but he's like 35 and we are playing italy so....

Snowy

@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:

33 allows you to select 2 full teams plus 3 others, likely a hooker, halfback and another player.

Two full teams of 15, not 23 as are needed for a modern game of rugby, according to the coaches (as you said).

I mentioned the smaller teams and the cost, but it doesn't change the point of seeing the best players in their best positions.

Snowy

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

I agree but he's like 35 and we are playing italy so....

so... give Sam a rest and play Bryn Evans? Similar age. He's going O.K.

Mackerzzzz

@snowy said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

I agree but he's like 35 and we are playing italy so....

so... give Sam a rest and play Bryn Evans? Similar age. He's going O.K.

No bring in a younger player to blood for the future. Like a ppp

Snowy

@mackerzzzz I was joking due to the age factor, and Bryn has been going well.

Like to see some young blood too.

Stargazer

Mitchell Dunshea?

Chris

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:

@chris said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

Do people reckon retalick will walk straight into the all blacks squad?

Straight back into the starting XV. We missed his aggression and hard edge last year.

Who would you kick from the squad then?

I thought whitelock but he is likely to captan so...
Tuipulotu?

Whatttt Whitelock has been the best Lock in SR, no way is he being dropped.Even he isn't Captain.

he's drifted in and out of games that I've seen, and not been as physical as previously. Still not dropping him, but he hasn't been as good as previous years

He has also pulled off some big plays at times being a line out steal, big tackle or a turn over.

Chris

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@chris said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

Do people reckon retalick will walk straight into the all blacks squad?

Straight back into the starting XV. We missed his aggression and hard edge last year.

Who would you kick from the squad then?

I thought whitelock but he is likely to captan so...
Tuipulotu?

Whatttt Whitelock has been the best Lock in SR, no way is he being dropped.Even he isn't Captain.

I agree but he's like 35 and we are playing italy so....

32 peak lock age not 35

Mackerzzzz

@chris said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@chris said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

Do people reckon retalick will walk straight into the all blacks squad?

Straight back into the starting XV. We missed his aggression and hard edge last year.

Who would you kick from the squad then?

I thought whitelock but he is likely to captan so...
Tuipulotu?

Whatttt Whitelock has been the best Lock in SR, no way is he being dropped.Even he isn't Captain.

I agree but he's like 35 and we are playing italy so....

32 peak lock age not 35

Ok he's younger than I thought.

But even so we do need to bring some young players through. Our locks (with retalick included) are 32, 29, 28 and 27? They will all be borderline at the end of next world cup.

I just think it would be worth them bringing in some young players vs italy.

Like: tupou vaii and PPP etc

Chris

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@chris said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@chris said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@bovidae said in All Blacks 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

Do people reckon retalick will walk straight into the all blacks squad?

Straight back into the starting XV. We missed his aggression and hard edge last year.

Who would you kick from the squad then?

I thought whitelock but he is likely to captan so...
Tuipulotu?

Whatttt Whitelock has been the best Lock in SR, no way is he being dropped.Even he isn't Captain.

I agree but he's like 35 and we are playing italy so....

32 peak lock age not 35

Ok he's younger than I thought.

But even so we do need to bring some young players through. Our locks (with retalick included) are 32, 29, 28 and 27? They will all be borderline at the end of next world cup.

I just think it would be worth them bringing in some young players vs italy.

Like: tupou vaii and PPP etc

Can’t see it with Foster under pressure if he has another average year, Then maybe Tuipulotu under the most threat of missing out.

Stargazer

I don't know if you guys watched the Breakdown tonight, but they discussed TJ Perenara. They said that he's not eligible for the ABs this year, yet, because - unlike BB and Retallick - he doesn't have a contract with NZR. He could become eligible, if he signs with NZR and a SR franchise for next year, but without that, he doesn't qualify. He probably needs to play in NZ first (for Wellington?), too.

nzzp

@stargazer said in All Blacks 2021:

... if he signs with NZR and a SR franchise for next year

First, thanks for taking one for the team by watching. I've tried, but there is so little rugby analysis talked aobut it's not funny. So cheers.

Secondly, Blues could use a good halfback ... pair him back up with Otere (tongue firmly in cheek)

mofitzy_

@stargazer
Why would he need to play in NZ first?

Crucial

@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:

@stargazer
Why would he need to play in NZ first?

Probably because selection criteria says 'currently playing in NZ'. He would also likely fall into that category to be selected for Super. Needs to come back under the RPA to get into the system.

mofitzy_

@crucial
I would've thought contracted would be enough. But if 20 minutes off the bench for a provincial side is all it takes then it isn't a massive hurdle.

Crucial

@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:

@crucial
I would've thought contracted would be enough. But if 20 minutes off the bench for a provincial side is all it takes then it isn't a massive hurdle.

He could just trot out for a club.

Crucial

@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:

@crucial
I would've thought contracted would be enough. But if 20 minutes off the bench for a provincial side is all it takes then it isn't a massive hurdle.

Not the RPA actually. Have had a look at that and there is a clause that says that national team selection is also dependent on the NZRU National Teams Selection Policy.
That policy wording is harder to track down but in essence is where the NZRU put in place things like not selecting overseas based players.
I did find an old press article (2004) about Henry wanting Reihana and Blowers to be eligible for selection if they returned from the UK.

"Under NZRU eligibility criteria for overseas players to be eligible for selection for the All Blacks, a player must be eligible under IRB regulations, be contracted by the NZRU, be resident in New Zealand and play, or be available to play, for a New Zealand team in the NPC or Super 12 competition immediately preceding the selection of the All Black team or squad.

However, the policy also says that, at the discretion of the board, a player could on a case by case basis be granted exemption from the fourth criteria."

The NZRU back then were unwilling to waive the fourth criteria due to the possible signal it would send to players (ie play overseas then come back and immediately play for ABs). My guess is that opinion still stands.

So the comment about Perenara was probably correct and he would have known this before going. He needs to come back, sign with Welly and/or the Canes and play, or be available to play, before he can be selected for the ABs.
Club rugby won't suffice so he needs to. NPC dates aren't out yet are they?

Mackerzzzz

@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:

@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:

@crucial
I would've thought contracted would be enough. But if 20 minutes off the bench for a provincial side is all it takes then it isn't a massive hurdle.

Not the RPA actually. Have had a look at that and there is a clause that says that national team selection is also dependent on the NZRU National Teams Selection Policy.
That policy wording is harder to track down but in essence is where the NZRU put in place things like not selecting overseas based players.
I did find an old press article (2004) about Henry wanting Reihana and Blowers to be eligible for selection if they returned from the UK.

"Under NZRU eligibility criteria for overseas players to be eligible for selection for the All Blacks, a player must be eligible under IRB regulations, be contracted by the NZRU, be resident in New Zealand and play, or be available to play, for a New Zealand team in the NPC or Super 12 competition immediately preceding the selection of the All Black team or squad.

However, the policy also says that, at the discretion of the board, a player could on a case by case basis be granted exemption from the fourth criteria."

The NZRU back then were unwilling to waive the fourth criteria due to the possible signal it would send to players (ie play overseas then come back and immediately play for ABs). My guess is that opinion still stands.

So the comment about Perenara was probably correct and he would have known this before going. He needs to come back, sign with Welly and/or the Canes and play, or be available to play, before he can be selected for the ABs.
Club rugby won't suffice so he needs to. NPC dates aren't out yet are they?

All he needs is to be available to play.

There doesn't actually have to be a game at that time.

He could finish in japan and be available to play the next day realistically.

Crucial

@mackerzzzz said in All Blacks 2021:

@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:

@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks 2021:

@crucial
I would've thought contracted would be enough. But if 20 minutes off the bench for a provincial side is all it takes then it isn't a massive hurdle.

Not the RPA actually. Have had a look at that and there is a clause that says that national team selection is also dependent on the NZRU National Teams Selection Policy.
That policy wording is harder to track down but in essence is where the NZRU put in place things like not selecting overseas based players.
I did find an old press article (2004) about Henry wanting Reihana and Blowers to be eligible for selection if they returned from the UK.

"Under NZRU eligibility criteria for overseas players to be eligible for selection for the All Blacks, a player must be eligible under IRB regulations, be contracted by the NZRU, be resident in New Zealand and play, or be available to play, for a New Zealand team in the NPC or Super 12 competition immediately preceding the selection of the All Black team or squad.

However, the policy also says that, at the discretion of the board, a player could on a case by case basis be granted exemption from the fourth criteria."

The NZRU back then were unwilling to waive the fourth criteria due to the possible signal it would send to players (ie play overseas then come back and immediately play for ABs). My guess is that opinion still stands.

So the comment about Perenara was probably correct and he would have known this before going. He needs to come back, sign with Welly and/or the Canes and play, or be available to play, before he can be selected for the ABs.
Club rugby won't suffice so he needs to. NPC dates aren't out yet are they?

All he needs is to be available to play.

There doesn't actually have to be a game at that time.

He could finish in japan and be available to play the next day realistically.

No, it is simply as it says. The Super or NPC immediately preceding. If he came back after Super but before NPC then he has to wait until the next NPC starts because he wasn't available for the one preceeding.
Technically you are possibly correct that if he came back when NPC was on and signed up he could go straight to the AB camp but I think that NZR would ask for a game first to be clear to others that they can't just walk back into the ABs from going overseas unless they have arranged a sabbatical.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2021