All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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Ireland 2019/2021
1 Cian Healy => Andrew Porter. Has switched back to LH, where he terrorised NZ at U20 level, notably Tuungafasi if my memory serves me correctly.
2 Rory Best (Captain) => Ronan Kelleher. Hooker is not Ireland's strongest area. Decent enough but prone to throwing yips.
3 Tadhg Furlong => Tadgh Furlong. Best TH in world rugby, would stroll into the ABs team. Does all the core duties well and pretty decent in open play too.
4 Iain Henderson => Tadgh Beirne. Beirne is a lock/6. He is savage at the tackle/ruck for turnovers/penaltiey, and pretty athletic. Not sure how would go in a tight foward tussle though. Might make way altogether or move to 6 for Henderson
5 James Ryan => James Ryan. In his first season, Irish fans were comparing him to Retallick and Itoje. Has been quieter since then, and possibly at risk from Henderson. Still a pretty decent lock.
6 Peter O'Mahony => Caelan Doris. Doris I haven't seen so much of, but he's pretty athletic and a bigger player than O'Mahony.
7 Josh van der Flier => Josh Van der Flier. Reminds me of Marty Holah a bit. Very good player, but probably a tad underpowered for the very top level.
8 CJ Stander => Jack Conan. A rangy dynamic 8, offers a lot more in the loose than Stander. Qs still remain against dominant oppositon packs IMO. Stander was a unit, but pretty one-dimensional.
9 Conor Murray => Jamison Gibson-Park. Cf his NZ ruby career
10 Johnny Sexton => Johnny Sexton. Underated on this forum but a pretty decent 1st-five. Bit of a prat/prima donna though and now aged 36.
11 Jacob Stockdale => James Lowe. Cf his NZ rugby career
12 Robbie Henshaw => Bundee Aki. Cf his NZ rugby career
13 Garry Ringrose => Gary Ringrose. Pretty decent centre, a standout at U20 level. Conrad Smith style of player.
14 Keith Earls => Andrew Conway. A nose for the tryline, decent in the air. A solid option but the ABs won't be losing sleep.
15 Rob Kearney => Hugo Keenan. I really rate Keenan. He is Ireland's answer to Ben Smith, but a bit less threatening on attack. But in the air, positioning, tactical awareness etc first rate. Unlucky not to make the Lions wider squad IMO.The current team is more dynamic than the 2019 RWC quarter-final team, I wonder about their nous under pressure though. NZ should relentlessly target the ageing Sexton and the defensively-suspect Lowe.
@billy-tell Agree with that analysis. Assuming above is their starting XV their bench will most likely be Sheehan, Healy, Bealham, Henderson, O'Mahoney, Murray, Carbery and Earls.
Pretty strong. Carbery is a good player, though on the small side. Not seen much of Bealham, but he's doing well for Connacht.
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@billy-tell Agree with that analysis. Assuming above is their starting XV their bench will most likely be Sheehan, Healy, Bealham, Henderson, O'Mahoney, Murray, Carbery and Earls.
Pretty strong. Carbery is a good player, though on the small side. Not seen much of Bealham, but he's doing well for Connacht.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@billy-tell Agree with that analysis. Assuming above is their starting XV their bench will most likely be Sheehan, Healy, Bealham, Henderson, O'Mahoney, Murray, Carbery and Earls.
Pretty strong. Carbery is a good player, though on the small side. Not seen much of Bealham, but he's doing well for Connacht.
Bench is weak
Healy, O’Mahoney, Murray and Earls are past it. Carbery out of form with having had a multitude of injuries. Bealham a bit meh. Henderson can be very good and Sheehan I haven’t seen play i think.
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Imo it will be a terrible selection if cane starts at 7. And a total lack of faith in those who have ably replaced him. Come back next season Sam. Your country will no doubt need you.
Not like they need him to be captain. Whitelock has that in hand, with Savea, Retallick ably supporting him. Cane shouldn't be anywhere near selection IMO. The Irish back row, and pack in general, are not to be underestimated or be used as a stepping stone on a long term injury comeback.
Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.
Like Cane, Should he even be playing for ABs next season now? It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out - not to mention the people who've so ably filled in for him...
:fishing_pole: -
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.
Like Cane, Should he even be playing for ABs next season now? It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out - not to mention the people who've so ably filled in for him...
:fishing_pole:@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.
Like Cane, Should he even be playing for ABs next season now? It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out - not to mention the people who've so ably filled in for him...
:fishing_pole:A. He isn't injured or coming back from a long layoff
B. He doesn't have anyone who has played at his level so far since he returned to NZ.
C. Your bait is rancid.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.
Like Cane, Should he even be playing for ABs next season now? It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out - not to mention the people who've so ably filled in for him...
:fishing_pole:A. He isn't injured or coming back from a long layoff
B. He doesn't have anyone who has played at his level so far since he returned to NZ.
C. Your bait is rancid.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.
Like Cane, Should he even be playing for ABs next season now? It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out - not to mention the people who've so ably filled in for him...
:fishing_pole:A. He isn't injured or coming back from a long layoff
B. He doesn't have anyone who has played at his level so far since he returned to NZ.
C. Your bait is rancid.
In all seriousness, I'd take a fit Sam Cane over any other 7 any day of the week. If he's selected in the 23 and comes thru 20 minutes or so against Ireland, I'd pick him to start against France.
I'd say the same for Nugget and wouldn't want him starting against a top tier nation when he been away for so long either.
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No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough (unless there's another injury we don't know about).
Would definitely keep him in play for the France game though. -
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough (unless there's another injury we don't know about).
Would definitely keep him in play for the France game though.@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
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@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
@chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.
It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.
But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.
for me it comes down to how well he played in that tier 2 hit out and how much need we have, he was ok but far from stellar and we have other very solid options so will be surprised
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench
Though he hasn't played much against top tier teams, he's been a bit of a revelation at 9 for me.
Didn't really rate him that much in Super Rugby - just a good solid halfback - but he seems to be an equally good, solid 9 at Test level and looks comfortable in the Black jersey.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
i think general fitness will be fine, smith will have been doing everything he can to stay sharp, obviously match fitness is a step up but i would hope as he hasn't been away for injury it wouldn't be a huge ask
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@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
i think general fitness will be fine, smith will have been doing everything he can to stay sharp, obviously match fitness is a step up but i would hope as he hasn't been away for injury it wouldn't be a huge ask
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
i think general fitness will be fine, smith will have been doing everything he can to stay sharp, obviously match fitness is a step up but i would hope as he hasn't been away for injury it wouldn't be a huge ask
He's a hard trainer for sure but I think that some here are underestimating what the week will take out of him. He could be absolutely fine to get straight into it but jetlag will catchup sooner or later and he could be really flat for the France game.
Let the guys that are there do the job (Christie starting IMO), let Smith find his feet and take it from there.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough
I must be watching different games.
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.
TJP can carry water
Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely
There is no guarantee that DMac will be on the bench. He wasn't against Wales. I think they'll go for the TJP-Christie combo in this test.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench
Though he hasn't played much against top tier teams, he's been a bit of a revelation at 9 for me.
Didn't really rate him that much in Super Rugby - just a good solid halfback - but he seems to be an equally good, solid 9 at Test level and looks comfortable in the Black jersey.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench
Though he hasn't played much against top tier teams, he's been a bit of a revelation at 9 for me.
Didn't really rate him that much in Super Rugby - just a good solid halfback - but he seems to be an equally good, solid 9 at Test level and looks comfortable in the Black jersey.
He has a nice crisp pass and isn't shy on the tackle and he snipes. That's good enough for me at the moment
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I'll add that assuming that Weber is definitely out, Smith is there as insurance for this test. If one of TJP or Christie pulled up lame during the week or pre-match then they have another halfback to slot in. Halfback and hooker are two positions you don't want to be compromised in through late injuries.
But I'd definitely be playing Smith against France.
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"Right now we have three nines in hunt for this weekend's start,'' Plumtree said. "Aaron is only arriving Wednesday, he doesn't know what the plan is. So it's pretty unrealistic to think that Aaron is going to be playing at the weekend.''
Weber had to leave the field in the first half of the 47-9 win over Italy in Rome last weekend after suffering a nasty blow to the nose, and is still working through World Rugby's head injury assessment protocols.
Christie, who replaced Weber, also has a sore neck but Plumtree said he was still able to be involved in a practice on Tuesday and should be available for selection.
"TJ is pretty happy with his form. All of them are going pretty well,'' Plumtree added. "Obviously Brad has got these HIA protocols that he is going through this week, and Finlay has a little bit of an issue with his neck.
"But he trained today and (we) are expecting him to be fit for the weekend.''
Other than tighthead prop Angus Ta'avao, who is still recovering from an elbow injury, Plumtree said the All Blacks had no other injuries.
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"Right now we have three nines in hunt for this weekend's start,'' Plumtree said. "Aaron is only arriving Wednesday, he doesn't know what the plan is. So it's pretty unrealistic to think that Aaron is going to be playing at the weekend.''
Weber had to leave the field in the first half of the 47-9 win over Italy in Rome last weekend after suffering a nasty blow to the nose, and is still working through World Rugby's head injury assessment protocols.
Christie, who replaced Weber, also has a sore neck but Plumtree said he was still able to be involved in a practice on Tuesday and should be available for selection.
"TJ is pretty happy with his form. All of them are going pretty well,'' Plumtree added. "Obviously Brad has got these HIA protocols that he is going through this week, and Finlay has a little bit of an issue with his neck.
"But he trained today and (we) are expecting him to be fit for the weekend.''
Other than tighthead prop Angus Ta'avao, who is still recovering from an elbow injury, Plumtree said the All Blacks had no other injuries.
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
he doesn't know what the plan is
i reckon he knows it's "spin it wide at all costs"
i do
you do
the irish do
my nanna does, and she's dead -
Pretty sure TJ is being lined up to start vs Ireland.
They've said Smith is being called up "as cover", which sort of suggests to me that if TJ and Christie are both fit they'll be the pairing for this game (and that Weber isn't fit).
Of course, if our halfbacks shit the bed vs Ireland, I'm sure the coaches are pragmatic enough to get Smith in the team for France.
If they've got concerns about Christie, they'll probably be pragmatic enough to play Smith on Saturday - but, most people seemed to think he went pretty well vs Italy.
