Super Rugby 2022
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@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders.
:face_with_tears_of_joy:
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders.
:face_with_tears_of_joy:
@bones said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders.
:face_with_tears_of_joy:
it's one of the better wind-ups in Fern history.
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@bones said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders.
:face_with_tears_of_joy:
it's one of the better wind-ups in Fern history.
I'm not sure if you're being serious here? they fit into Razor's system well enough but Ennor, Havili, Goodhue, McCleod, Punivai are all quite limited players. They are either far too lightweight, too passive and slow, or defensively poor.
The other franchises have considerably more talented, dynamic, faster & larger midfield options.
Chiefs: Anton Lienert-Brown (102kg), Alex Nankivell (98kg), Quinn Tupaea (102kg), Gideon Wrampling (101kg), Rameka Poihipi (105kg - has been the standout midfielder for Canterbury, Punivai & McCleod have been woeful).
Highlanders: Thomas Umaga-Jenson (107kg), Ngatungane Punivai (102kg), Scott Gregory (100kg), Fetuli Paea (98kg), Raymond Nu'u (98kg), Patelesio Tomkinson (96kg), Josh Timu.
Hurricanes: Jordie Barrett (102kg), Peter Umaga-Jensen (103kg), Billy Proctor (97kg), Bailyn Sullivan (98kg), Teihorangi Walden (96kg).
Blues: Reiko Ioane (103kg), Tanielu Te'ela (107kg), Roger Tuivasa-Sheck (98kg), Bryce Heem (103kg), Tamati Tua (98kg), Corey Evans (96kg).
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I'm not sure if you're being serious here? they fit into Razor's system well enough but Ennor, Havili, Goodhue, McCleod, Punivai are all quite limited players. They are either far too lightweight, too passive and slow, or defensively poor.
The other franchises have considerably more talented, dynamic, faster & larger midfield options.
Chiefs: Anton Lienert-Brown (102kg), Alex Nankivell (98kg), Quinn Tupaea (102kg), Gideon Wrampling (101kg), Rameka Poihipi (105kg - has been the standout midfielder for Canterbury, Punivai & McCleod have been woeful).
Highlanders: Thomas Umaga-Jenson (107kg), Ngatungane Punivai (102kg), Scott Gregory (100kg), Fetuli Paea (98kg), Raymond Nu'u (98kg), Patelesio Tomkinson (96kg), Josh Timu.
Hurricanes: Jordie Barrett (102kg), Peter Umaga-Jensen (103kg), Billy Proctor (97kg), Bailyn Sullivan (98kg), Teihorangi Walden (96kg).
Blues: Reiko Ioane (103kg), Tanielu Te'ela (107kg), Roger Tuivasa-Sheck (98kg), Bryce Heem (103kg), Tamati Tua (98kg), Corey Evans (96kg).
@kiwi_expat surely you could acknowledge 3 of the 5 lightweight/pass/slow midfielders the saders have are All Blacks.....and so this opinion might be not a universal fact
surely you cant be surprised
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okay, we are getting somewhere
Foster isn't the problem, picking too many shit Crusaders is the problem. Limited, light slow Crusaders
That all played tests this year, but weren't the reason we lost.
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@kiwi_expat surely you could acknowledge 3 of the 5 lightweight/pass/slow midfielders the saders have are All Blacks.....and so this opinion might be not a universal fact
surely you cant be surprised
@kiwiwomble - It's Foster trying to put square pegs in round holes under Foster's vastly inferior system.
This article from Ben Smith basically summarizes what I've long argued previously.
Razor's innovative and resourceful systems & structures get the most out of relatively limited players - Foster then takes those same limited players and substitutes them directly into his (much less effective...) systems and people wonder why it doesn't exactly work out seamlessly.
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I'm not sure if you're being serious here? they fit into Razor's system well enough but Ennor, Havili, Goodhue, McCleod, Punivai are all quite limited players. They are either far too lightweight, too passive and slow, or defensively poor.
The other franchises have considerably more talented, dynamic, faster & larger midfield options.
Chiefs: Anton Lienert-Brown (102kg), Alex Nankivell (98kg), Quinn Tupaea (102kg), Gideon Wrampling (101kg), Rameka Poihipi (105kg - has been the standout midfielder for Canterbury, Punivai & McCleod have been woeful).
Highlanders: Thomas Umaga-Jenson (107kg), Ngatungane Punivai (102kg), Scott Gregory (100kg), Fetuli Paea (98kg), Raymond Nu'u (98kg), Patelesio Tomkinson (96kg), Josh Timu.
Hurricanes: Jordie Barrett (102kg), Peter Umaga-Jensen (103kg), Billy Proctor (97kg), Bailyn Sullivan (98kg), Teihorangi Walden (96kg).
Blues: Reiko Ioane (103kg), Tanielu Te'ela (107kg), Roger Tuivasa-Sheck (98kg), Bryce Heem (103kg), Tamati Tua (98kg), Corey Evans (96kg).
@kiwi_expat Really? 3 All Black midfielders in the squad and somehow they have the least talented midfield in the comp? You didn't include Leicester Fainga'nuku either who probably should have been capped by now at the very least (he's certainly good enough).
Come on, I know you're trying to prop up your pro Razor agenda (and you make some decent points along the way), but come on, this is a poor argument.
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@kiwi_expat Really? 3 All Black midfielders in the squad and somehow they have the least talented midfield in the comp? You didn't include Leicester Fainga'nuku either who probably should have been capped by now at the very least (he's certainly good enough).
Come on, I know you're trying to prop up your pro Razor agenda (and you make some decent points along the way), but come on, this is a poor argument.
@african-monkey thats a bloody good point
and also doesn't address things like of the Highlanders world beating midfield....two had season ending injuries, two other looks passable at NPC level and the other two have been used much more on the wing at super level and sio will kill someone of get carded....and that probably the only fact in this thread
i actually agree that maybe they can look better than they are because of how razor had the team playing....but im not going as far as saying its a fact theyre shit
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@african-monkey thats a bloody good point
and also doesn't address things like of the Highlanders world beating midfield....two had season ending injuries, two other looks passable at NPC level and the other two have been used much more on the wing at super level and sio will kill someone of get carded....and that probably the only fact in this thread
i actually agree that maybe they can look better than they are because of how razor had the team playing....but im not going as far as saying its a fact theyre shit
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
i actually agree that maybe they can look better than they are because of how razor had the team playing....but im not going as far as saying its a fact theyre shit
Maybe? It's quite obvious the team appears far greater than the sum of their parts when they're performing at their best.
I remember a while back Squidge did an analysis of different club side's structures/systems & overall team cohesion. The Crusaders metrics were literally off the charts under Robertson and additionally exceeded the best results from other sporting codes as well.
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
i actually agree that maybe they can look better than they are because of how razor had the team playing....but im not going as far as saying its a fact theyre shit
Maybe? It's quite obvious the team appears far greater than the sum of their parts when they're performing at their best.
I remember a while back Squidge did an analysis of different club side's structures/systems & overall team cohesion. The Crusaders metrics were literally off the charts under Robertson and additionally exceeded the best results from other sporting codes as well.
@kiwi_expat it might also be the other way around too, fozzies game plan making them look worse than they are
almost certainly a bit of both
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Crusaders MF options are not that small
Goodhue 187 cm 105 kg
McLeod. 197 cm 101 kg
Punivai. 189 cm 100kg
Ennor 187 cm 95 kg
Havilli 188 cm. 90 kg being the smallest.Compare pretty well, then if Leicester Fainga'anuku is classed as a potential centre were he played a bit for the Crusaders last season he is a big unit at 188cm 109 kg
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Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website. McLeod 99kg, Ennor 94kg.
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Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website. McLeod 99kg, Ennor 94kg.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website
No he is bigger now that is pre last season stats he's been doing some power up work.Help out his ACL he injured and quads.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website
No he is bigger now that is pre last season stats he's been doing some power up work.Help out his ACL he injured and quads.
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Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website. McLeod 99kg, Ennor 94kg.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website. McLeod 99kg, Ennor 94kg.
Again old stats before the 2021 season started,the players all bulk a little each season as long as it doesn't effect performance
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website
No he is bigger now that is pre last season stats he's been doing some power up work.Help out his ACL he injured and quads.
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website
No he is bigger now that is pre last season stats he's been doing some power up work.Help out his ACL he injured and quads.
Be good to see how well Goodhue comes back after a second major knee opp. I remember him playing wing for the U20's and was pretty pacy. Might be good idea to bulk up, focus on 12 and a power game.
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@chris he's always looked bigger than his weight suggests too, plenty of website stats are misleading (sometimes plain wrong)
@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris he's always looked bigger than his weight suggests too, plenty of website stats are misleading (sometimes plain wrong)
Yep you could look on Wiki it would be different ,players change body mass to cover injuries etc to reinforce or prevent further injuries.
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@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website
No he is bigger now that is pre last season stats he's been doing some power up work.Help out his ACL he injured and quads.
Be good to see how well Goodhue comes back after a second major knee opp. I remember him playing wing for the U20's and was pretty pacy. Might be good idea to bulk up, focus on 12 and a power game.
@themojoman said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Goodhue is 100kg, look on their website
No he is bigger now that is pre last season stats he's been doing some power up work.Help out his ACL he injured and quads.
Be good to see how well Goodhue comes back after a second major knee opp. I remember him playing wing for the U20's and was pretty pacy. Might be good idea to bulk up, focus on 12 and a power game.
Thats is How I understand it,he is working on more power.Looks like March comeback for him.
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@kiwi_expat it might also be the other way around too, fozzies game plan making them look worse than they are
almost certainly a bit of both
@kiwiwomble It will be interesting to see Havili for the Crusaders this season. His disappearance in Black looks as much like a coaching/strategy issue as anything. If the structures the All Black coaches want to play don't suit Havili then fine, but why select him in the first place? Just another unfortunate example of square pegs in round holes under Foster's vastly inferior structures. Why does Foster continue to select Havili over others when he doesn't have an effective strategy (that's based off his strengths) to properly utilize him?
