All Blacks 2022
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IIRC, Moody and Taylor have both been recently signed up to long term contracts, which shows how poorly the team has been managed.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
IIRC, Moody and Taylor have both been recently signed up to long term contracts, which shows how poorly the team has been managed.
But that won't (shouldn't) guarantee AB selection, only make them eligible for selection.
Experience is invaluable at a RWC, but those older players need to be performing and worthy of selection. In summary, we need a 2015 performance from some veterans, not the 1991 version where many players, including the captain, were well past their use-by date.
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@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
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What if we had our 1991 type season in 2019 but the coaches didn't notice? We have lost two years of progress by not demoting the tight five players that got destroyed in 2019, and have continued to perform poorly.
We need to be realistic and set a goal of winning our quarter final. That will be against South Africa or Ireland, and unless they have a big dip in form, we will need a much more physical and dynamic tight five performance. If we play the 2019 tight five again, then we will have at best a 50% chance at winning playoff games. Duds at 12 and lack of a power winger won't help. Nor will a flaky first five.
If we don't give the younger, and better, tight five forwards a lot of game time this year, then we may as well give up. Moody, Taylor, Laulala, Whitelock, and Retallick are all has-beens. Whitelock is the really the only one who should have gotten game time last year.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
What if we had our 1991 type season in 2019 but the coaches didn't notice? We have lost two years of progress by not demoting the tight five players that got destroyed in 2019, and have continued to perform poorly.
We need to be realistic and set a goal of winning our quarter final. That will be against South Africa or Ireland, and unless they have a big dip in form, we will need a much more physical and dynamic tight five performance. If we play the 2019 tight five again, then we will have at best a 50% chance at winning playoff games. Duds at 12 and lack of a power winger won't help. Nor will a flaky first five.
If we don't give the younger, and better, tight five forwards a lot of game time this year, then we may as well give up. Moody, Taylor, Laulala, Whitelock, and Retallick are all has-beens. Whitelock is the really the only one who should have gotten game time last year.
I think a lot of us gave up when NZR re signed foster and co before seeing what they were capable of cos 'it's too stressful to have uncertainty' The fact they didn't fall on their swords after the loss to arg, or the shit they served last year, means all hope is lost for this rwc
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The Irish series will be a great acid test. For the first time ever the Irish genuinely believe they can win at least 1 test in NZ. They will send out a squad that matches that belief. It’s so much better preparation than playing a Pacific Island team.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
IIRC, Moody and Taylor have both been recently signed up to long term contracts, which shows how poorly the team has been managed.
But that won't (shouldn't) guarantee AB selection, only make them eligible for selection.
Experience is invaluable at a RWC, but those older players need to be performing and worthy of selection. In summary, we need a 2015 performance from some veterans, not the 1991 version where many players, including the captain, were well past their use-by date.
@Bovidae how long after Julian Savea signed his long term contract did his form fall off a cliff and he asked for a release?
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@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
I wasn’t going to assume…..Kaino is not that tall though, 6 3 in the old language at the absolute most. Read possibly doing the Ardie Savea hair trick to clearly be the tallest in this pic though.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
don't forget hes a thug who shouldn't be honored with a black jersey
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 you’re in the minority Dan54 but each to their own. Has never made an imprint with the ABs.
as formally one of his biggest champions, i leant we have to move on, he's been given too many chances already
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
Agree, and has he ever actually shown much form at Super level? I mean he's been decent but hasn't consistently dominated like the others you mention. He's just been picked on potential alone, time to move on.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
I wasn’t going to assume…..Kaino is not that tall though, 6 3 in the old language at the absolute most. Read possibly doing the Ardie Savea hair trick to clearly be the tallest in this pic though.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
I wasn’t going to assume…..Kaino is not that tall though, 6 3 in the old language at the absolute most. Read possibly doing the Ardie Savea hair trick to clearly be the tallest in this pic though.
his stats say 1.96 which translates to 6 foot 4 , but I wasnt so much talking height , he was all thick muscle
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
I wasn’t going to assume…..Kaino is not that tall though, 6 3 in the old language at the absolute most. Read possibly doing the Ardie Savea hair trick to clearly be the tallest in this pic though.
his stats say 1.96 which translates to 6 foot 4 , but I wasnt so much talking height , he was all thick muscle
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
his stats say 1.96 which translates to 6 foot 4 , but I wasnt so much talking height , he was all thick muscle
he was a monster. Who some said shuold never play for the ABs.
Good article here
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-why-jerome-kainos-story-should-inspire-all-especially-the-blues/G7LN3ZTEM3Y3WMIHYXGDBYYGDY/ -
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
I wasn’t going to assume…..Kaino is not that tall though, 6 3 in the old language at the absolute most. Read possibly doing the Ardie Savea hair trick to clearly be the tallest in this pic though.
his stats say 1.96 which translates to 6 foot 4 , but I wasnt so much talking height , he was all thick muscle
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
I wasn’t going to assume…..Kaino is not that tall though, 6 3 in the old language at the absolute most. Read possibly doing the Ardie Savea hair trick to clearly be the tallest in this pic though.
his stats say 1.96 which translates to 6 foot 4 , but I wasnt so much talking height , he was all thick muscle
It’s actually 6 foot 5 but in any case he was obviously doing the Daniel Braid trick of being measured in his Rugby boots on solid ground. Definitely a solid unit though.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
He has never played as well as he has at super level. Beside he has played ok at test level I reckon. I saying when they pick a team they don't look at forums where a few posters say he has never played well at test level. Hell if we talked about not stepping up Akira wouldn't get a look in, as apart from 1 game he hasn't done squat at test level, I will also say if Akira plays as well as Frizzell did before injury in rest of season he will get picked first. Jacobson has been pretty good this year also, and if he plays as well as Frizzell did at beginning of season.
If you read what I said if he was playing like he was this season. Or do you think we pick players on reputation? -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
Agree, and has he ever actually shown much form at Super level? I mean he's been decent but hasn't consistently dominated like the others you mention. He's just been picked on potential alone, time to move on.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
Agree, and has he ever actually shown much form at Super level? I mean he's been decent but hasn't consistently dominated like the others you mention. He's just been picked on potential alone, time to move on.
You obviously didn't watch a lot of super rugby especially this year, almos every pundit had him as the best 6 in NZ , and I didn't think it was close. And no I not a Highlanders' man , just someone who watches evrything and everyone.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
He has never played as well as he has at super level. Beside he has played ok at test level I reckon. I saying when they pick a team they don't look at forums where a few posters say he has never played well at test level. Hell if we talked about not stepping up Akira wouldn't get a look in, as apart from 1 game he hasn't done squat at test level, I will also say if Akira plays as well as Frizzell did before injury in rest of season he will get picked first. Jacobson has been pretty good this year also, and if he plays as well as Frizzell did at beginning of season.
If you read what I said if he was playing like he was this season. Or do you think we pick players on reputation?@Dan54 he has played well at super before and he has now been involved in the AB set up since 2018, but hasnt really ever stepped up at Test level asisde from the odd glimpse here and there, just hasnt provided the physicality someone his size should be, and therefore, tends to go missing in the tighter games, which in the past few years, have been the ones we are losing.
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@Kirwan The weights are pretty much bullshit.
The ABs website lists Kaino at 105kgs, which is probably when he was 16. They've got Ardie at 99kgs as well.
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Same with Fozzie mentioning last year that they could use Frizell at lock in a pinch. And yet he appears regularly across the internet at 108kgs - which is basically the weight of an international openside.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Not that it went that well....
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@Dan54 he has played well at super before and he has now been involved in the AB set up since 2018, but hasnt really ever stepped up at Test level asisde from the odd glimpse here and there, just hasnt provided the physicality someone his size should be, and therefore, tends to go missing in the tighter games, which in the past few years, have been the ones we are losing.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 he has played well at super before and he has now been involved in the AB set up since 2018, but hasnt really ever stepped up at Test level asisde from the odd glimpse here and there, just hasnt provided the physicality someone his size should be, and therefore, tends to go missing in the tighter games, which in the past few years, have been the ones we are losing.
Tell me a 6 who has played well in a test we have lost. We tend to lose tests because we get beaten in tight forwards and that nmeans it awful hard for anyone who is a loosie to show physicallity. Akira has been exactly same, he has one good test where our tighties gave Aus a hiding, so he didn't have to do work in the tight, but I still think if Akira or Jacobson play as well as Frizell did before injury they will go to top of list.. I don't believe we pick players on what they were , but how they playing now. I do think at moment Jacobson would be my pick.
