All Blacks 2022
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@nzzp I don't really begrudge the Blues organization, my frustration is more relating to how All Blacks are supposed to be the pinnacle, after all they are considered our 'flagship team'...
To me Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar is a reasonably acceptable coaching team for a Super Rugby team.
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp I don't really begrudge the Blues organization, my frustration is more relating to how All Blacks are supposed to be the pinnacle.
To me Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar is a reasonably acceptable coaching team for a Super Rugby team.
only if you never watched their Super Rugby teams
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@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
I'd that Craig McGrath is an excellent defense coach, Daniel Halangahu is their individual specialized skills/backs coach.
the answer to your specific question is coaches want to work there because it's a healthy environment with a structure that supports success.
Same way the Crusaders stockpiled talent for years - success breeds success. It feels good to have some envy; for years we were a dumpster fire, and frankly 12 good months don't make up for a decade of underachievement.
something something joke about salty tears of impotent rage
@nzzp said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
I'd that Craig McGrath is an excellent defense coach, Daniel Halangahu is their individual specialized skills/backs coach.
the answer to your specific question is coaches want to work there because it's a healthy environment with a structure that supports success.
Same way the Crusaders stockpiled talent for years - success breeds success. It feels good to have some envy; for years we were a dumpster fire, and frankly 12 good months don't make up for a decade of underachievement.
something something joke about salty tears of impotent rage
the Blues are the only team worth tuning in to watch at the moment. They have box office players, and i love the brand they play. If i only have time for one game a weekend (so, every weekend) generally I'll make it the Blues game.
Have fun while it lasts Blues fans.
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@nzzp I don't really begrudge the Blues organization, my frustration is more relating to how All Blacks are supposed to be the pinnacle, after all they are considered our 'flagship team'...
To me Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar is a reasonably acceptable coaching team for a Super Rugby team.
@kiwi_expat TBF, when the AB appointments were made, none of those were really on the radar, it was a 2 horse race between Foster and Razor, and the former had a huge headstart.
I think NZR placed too much emphasis on continuation following 2011/2015 sucesses, meaning it didnt seem they went through the process properly post 2019 RWC.
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@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp I don't really begrudge the Blues organization, my frustration is more relating to how All Blacks are supposed to be the pinnacle.
To me Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar is a reasonably acceptable coaching team for a Super Rugby team.
only if you never watched their Super Rugby teams
@mariner4life Mooar wasn't a good coach, both Mansbridge & Razor couldn't wait to get rid of him as he wasn't supported or rated by the players or fellow coaches, it's well documented that he was considered a liability.
As for McLeod, he was the weakest link (by far) in an international worthy coaching group that included Jamie Joseph, Tony Brown, Clarke Dermody - and the very highly regarded John Preston.
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@mariner4life Mooar wasn't a good coach, both Mansbridge & Razor couldn't wait to get rid of him as he wasn't supported or rated by the players or fellow coaches, it's well documented that he was considered a liability.
As for McLeod, he was the weakest link (by far) in an international worthy coaching group that included Jamie Joseph, Tony Brown, Clarke Dermody - and the very highly regarded John Preston.
@kiwi_expat yeah no shit, you are making my point back at me
again
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Hoping for 15 Jordan, 14 Reece, 11 Clarke (Jordie at 12)
(but highly confident it won't happen)
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
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@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
@Chris-B said in Blues v Reds:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
it would at least be fun to watch come together
but, knowing NZ rugby's absolute hard on for rotation and "building depth" it would be given one test and then there would be two changes, no matter what the performance looked like.
(i blame 2011 and the need for 8 first fives for this fucking obsession with having every player in the country getting a run to build experience)
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@Chris-B said in Blues v Reds:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
it would at least be fun to watch come together
but, knowing NZ rugby's absolute hard on for rotation and "building depth" it would be given one test and then there would be two changes, no matter what the performance looked like.
(i blame 2011 and the need for 8 first fives for this fucking obsession with having every player in the country getting a run to build experience)
@mariner4life To be honest - I think a part of that rotation is to keep key players from fucking off overseas.
e.g. If you tell either of Beaudy or Richie, "You're clearly number 2", you're risking them thinking, "Well in that case I might as well pick up my multi million pound, franc, yen cheque".
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@kiwi_expat TBF, when the AB appointments were made, none of those were really on the radar, it was a 2 horse race between Foster and Razor, and the former had a huge headstart.
I think NZR placed too much emphasis on continuation following 2011/2015 sucesses, meaning it didnt seem they went through the process properly post 2019 RWC.
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat TBF, when the AB appointments were made, none of those were really on the radar, it was a 2 horse race between Foster and Razor, and the former had a huge headstart.
I think NZR placed too much emphasis on continuation following 2011/2015 sucesses, meaning it didnt seem they went through the process properly post 2019 RWC.
The problem is NZR (like every other union on the planet does..) needs to initially seek out the best available head coach -irrespective of age, nationality or experience - and then assist in building the best possible support team around them, that's how Aus got (Rennie, McKellar, Wisemantel, Taylor, Du-Plessis).
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@mariner4life To be honest - I think a part of that rotation is to keep key players from fucking off overseas.
e.g. If you tell either of Beaudy or Richie, "You're clearly number 2", you're risking them thinking, "Well in that case I might as well pick up my multi million pound, franc, yen cheque".
@Chris-B said in Blues v Reds:
@mariner4life To be honest - I think a part of that rotation is to keep key players from fucking off overseas.
e.g. If you tell either of Beaudy or Richie, "You're clearly number 2", you're risking them thinking, "Well in that case I might as well pick up my multi million pound, franc, yen cheque".
which makes them weak fluffybunnies. They are getting paid the same to sit the pine or start FFS
And seriously, this isn't 1987 any more. The bench is getting big minutes every week.
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If NZ Rugby hired an Englishman to coach the All Blacks people would burn HQ to the ground
And rightly so.
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If NZ Rugby hired an Englishman to coach the All Blacks people would burn HQ to the ground
And rightly so.
@mariner4life or an Eddie Jones...although right now you get the feeling people would be more open to a foreign coach than ever before
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@Chris-B said in Blues v Reds:
@mariner4life To be honest - I think a part of that rotation is to keep key players from fucking off overseas.
e.g. If you tell either of Beaudy or Richie, "You're clearly number 2", you're risking them thinking, "Well in that case I might as well pick up my multi million pound, franc, yen cheque".
which makes them weak fluffybunnies. They are getting paid the same to sit the pine or start FFS
And seriously, this isn't 1987 any more. The bench is getting big minutes every week.
@mariner4life Not sure they're doing it entirely for the money though - or, when you get to the RWC play-offs, that you're going to give your bench first five anything more than token minutes.
You've seen it over the years with a handful of people we wanted to keep - Piutau, Luatua - who fucked off because they didn't feel enough love.
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@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp I don't really begrudge the Blues organization, my frustration is more relating to how All Blacks are supposed to be the pinnacle.
To me Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar is a reasonably acceptable coaching team for a Super Rugby team.
only if you never watched their Super Rugby teams
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If NZ Rugby hired an Englishman to coach the All Blacks people would burn HQ to the ground
And rightly so.
@mariner4life.. perhaps not in the head role but if Steve Borthwick OR Shaun Edwards were available in a technical capacity you'd bloody well take them (7 six nations titles combined) and extensive wildly successful coaching experience at every level, you'd be insane not to take advantage of their individual expertise.
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@mariner4life.. perhaps not in the head role but if Steve Borthwick OR Shaun Edwards were available in a technical capacity you'd bloody well take them (7 six nations titles combined) and extensive wildly successful coaching experience at every level, you'd be insane not to take advantage of their individual expertise.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life.. perhaps not in the head role but if Steve Borthwick OR Shaun Edwards were available in a technical capacity you'd bloody well take them (7 six nations titles combined) and extensive wildly successful coaching experience at every level, you'd be insane not to take advantage of their individual expertise.
i agree, but then i am far more pragmatic than most
and the post directly above yours is the key reason it won't happen.
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@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
