All Blacks 2022
-
@Chris-B said in Blues v Reds:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
it would at least be fun to watch come together
but, knowing NZ rugby's absolute hard on for rotation and "building depth" it would be given one test and then there would be two changes, no matter what the performance looked like.
(i blame 2011 and the need for 8 first fives for this fucking obsession with having every player in the country getting a run to build experience)
@mariner4life To be honest - I think a part of that rotation is to keep key players from fucking off overseas.
e.g. If you tell either of Beaudy or Richie, "You're clearly number 2", you're risking them thinking, "Well in that case I might as well pick up my multi million pound, franc, yen cheque".
-
@kiwi_expat TBF, when the AB appointments were made, none of those were really on the radar, it was a 2 horse race between Foster and Razor, and the former had a huge headstart.
I think NZR placed too much emphasis on continuation following 2011/2015 sucesses, meaning it didnt seem they went through the process properly post 2019 RWC.
@taniwharugby said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat TBF, when the AB appointments were made, none of those were really on the radar, it was a 2 horse race between Foster and Razor, and the former had a huge headstart.
I think NZR placed too much emphasis on continuation following 2011/2015 sucesses, meaning it didnt seem they went through the process properly post 2019 RWC.
The problem is NZR (like every other union on the planet does..) needs to initially seek out the best available head coach -irrespective of age, nationality or experience - and then assist in building the best possible support team around them, that's how Aus got (Rennie, McKellar, Wisemantel, Taylor, Du-Plessis).
-
@mariner4life To be honest - I think a part of that rotation is to keep key players from fucking off overseas.
e.g. If you tell either of Beaudy or Richie, "You're clearly number 2", you're risking them thinking, "Well in that case I might as well pick up my multi million pound, franc, yen cheque".
@Chris-B said in Blues v Reds:
@mariner4life To be honest - I think a part of that rotation is to keep key players from fucking off overseas.
e.g. If you tell either of Beaudy or Richie, "You're clearly number 2", you're risking them thinking, "Well in that case I might as well pick up my multi million pound, franc, yen cheque".
which makes them weak fluffybunnies. They are getting paid the same to sit the pine or start FFS
And seriously, this isn't 1987 any more. The bench is getting big minutes every week.
-
If NZ Rugby hired an Englishman to coach the All Blacks people would burn HQ to the ground
And rightly so.
-
If NZ Rugby hired an Englishman to coach the All Blacks people would burn HQ to the ground
And rightly so.
@mariner4life or an Eddie Jones...although right now you get the feeling people would be more open to a foreign coach than ever before
-
@Chris-B said in Blues v Reds:
@mariner4life To be honest - I think a part of that rotation is to keep key players from fucking off overseas.
e.g. If you tell either of Beaudy or Richie, "You're clearly number 2", you're risking them thinking, "Well in that case I might as well pick up my multi million pound, franc, yen cheque".
which makes them weak fluffybunnies. They are getting paid the same to sit the pine or start FFS
And seriously, this isn't 1987 any more. The bench is getting big minutes every week.
@mariner4life Not sure they're doing it entirely for the money though - or, when you get to the RWC play-offs, that you're going to give your bench first five anything more than token minutes.
You've seen it over the years with a handful of people we wanted to keep - Piutau, Luatua - who fucked off because they didn't feel enough love.
-
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp I don't really begrudge the Blues organization, my frustration is more relating to how All Blacks are supposed to be the pinnacle.
To me Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar is a reasonably acceptable coaching team for a Super Rugby team.
only if you never watched their Super Rugby teams
-
If NZ Rugby hired an Englishman to coach the All Blacks people would burn HQ to the ground
And rightly so.
@mariner4life.. perhaps not in the head role but if Steve Borthwick OR Shaun Edwards were available in a technical capacity you'd bloody well take them (7 six nations titles combined) and extensive wildly successful coaching experience at every level, you'd be insane not to take advantage of their individual expertise.
-
@mariner4life.. perhaps not in the head role but if Steve Borthwick OR Shaun Edwards were available in a technical capacity you'd bloody well take them (7 six nations titles combined) and extensive wildly successful coaching experience at every level, you'd be insane not to take advantage of their individual expertise.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life.. perhaps not in the head role but if Steve Borthwick OR Shaun Edwards were available in a technical capacity you'd bloody well take them (7 six nations titles combined) and extensive wildly successful coaching experience at every level, you'd be insane not to take advantage of their individual expertise.
i agree, but then i am far more pragmatic than most
and the post directly above yours is the key reason it won't happen.
-
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
He is a very switched-on man, he kind of helped set the blueprint on how to beat the AB's with most sides playing that suffocating style. If you don't give the AB's turnover ball or unstructured play you have a far better chance of beating us.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
He is a very switched-on man, he kind of helped set the blueprint on how to beat the AB's with most sides playing that suffocating style. If you don't give the AB's turnover ball or unstructured play you have a far better chance of beating us.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
He is a very switched-on man, he kind of helped set the blueprint on how to beat the AB's with most sides playing that suffocating style. If you don't give the AB's turnover ball or unstructured play you have a far better chance of beating us.
Didn't Gatland do that with the Lions first? Not only did they smother us with the rush defence, but it was very noticeable how they did everything they could to not let us take advantage of any of their knock ons etc. They disrupted like maniacs.
-
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
He is a very switched-on man, he kind of helped set the blueprint on how to beat the AB's with most sides playing that suffocating style. If you don't give the AB's turnover ball or unstructured play you have a far better chance of beating us.
Didn't Gatland do that with the Lions first? Not only did they smother us with the rush defence, but it was very noticeable how they did everything they could to not let us take advantage of any of their knock ons etc. They disrupted like maniacs.
@Crazy-Horse Ireland 2016, Lions 2017, capiche?
and that was Andy Farrell (not Gatland) coaching Lion's defense btw.
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
-
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
-
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
On pure current form, the AB team could be :
De Groot
ST
Ofa T
Sangster
Lord
Ioane
Papali'i
Sotutu
Ratima
Perofeta
Clarke
TUJ
Ioane
Jordan
BarrettThis guy good enough to be an AB?
@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:
On pure current form, the AB team could be :
De Groot
ST
Ofa T
Sangster
Lord
Ioane
Papali'i
Sotutu
Ratima
Perofeta
Clarke
TUJ
Ioane
Jordan
BarrettThis guy good enough to be an AB?
Shortish for an AB lock
-
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
Maybe I misunderstood you but I don't think @kiwi_expat was talking about playing ability. I read it as coaches whose ceiling is Super Rugby - as coaches.
-
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone explain to me how we got to the point where we have a bunch of Super Rugby-ceiling journeymen head coaches forming our national panel in Foster, McLeod, Plumtree, Mooar... yet somehow.. at present, we currently have 3-4 international quality coaches all hoarded at one franchise (McDonald, Schmidt (4x Six Nations winning coach), Afeaki (2x SR winning set-piece coach @ Chiefs), Coventry (2x SR winning coach @ Chiefs). We are truly living in the strangest of timelines.
Because playing ability and coaching are very, very different.
A bunch of top class ABs have coached in recent years. The careers of many of them were so short that you barely knew they did it at all. Here's some truly great players: Wayne Shelford, John Kirwan, Tana Umaga, Jeff Wilson.
Many of our best coaches were good players, but not greats : Robertson (22 games), Jamie Joseph (20), Schmidt (0), Henry (0), Gatland (17), Rennie (0), Tony Brown (18).
The thing a lot of our best coaches have in common is being school teachers for a while. That's much more closely correlated to success as a coach than the playing level they reached.
If anything, I would suggest that being an former AB tends to get people over promoted.
Upvote for the post but I don't think that was the actual question (deliberate #booboo ref @Crazy-Horse ).
-
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Frank I'd quite like that as well.
Jordie providing more size in the midfield (than last year). Clarke a power wing.
Rieko, Jordan and Beaudy with a ton of pace.
If it all came together it would cover most bases - though that "ïf" contains a fair bit of wishful thinking!
Overly simplistic take, size matters depending on the contrast between their height & weight dimensions.
Jordie doesn't provide the right type of size at 12, he's 196cm tall yet only weighs 100kg - ideal for a 15, tall/skinny/longer-levers, good under high ball, long raking punt etc..) in comparison, Nonu was 182cm & 108kg, those are completely different dimensions.
Closest we did have to those Nonu type dimensions was Laumape at 177cm & 103kg. I'd be looking at Thomas Umaga-Jenson because he consistently makes significant metres over the advantage line, he's 187cm & 108kg.
Jordie Barrett weighs in significantly more than 100kgs!!! He was 102kgs several seasons back and I'm sure he's got heavier.
He's pretty close to SBW size and brings a few extra skills compared to SBW.
Last I saw he was listed at 96kg. Someone needs to ask the man himself.
If you’re about 25 feet tall like he is you’re going to be reasonably heavy but he’s certainly not the massive powerhouse some say he is.
What’s George Moala up to ?
