All Blacks 2022
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:
European Cup Semi’s Team of the Week. One Kiwi.
Well you say that, buuuuut.....
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:
European Cup Semi’s Team of the Week. One Kiwi.
Well you say that, buuuuut.....
Good spot! Him and Maori Jesus would be pretty tasty midfield!
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9-Smith
10-B. Barrett
11-Reece/Clarke
12-Goodhue/J. Barrett
13-Ioane
14-Jordan/Reece
15-J. Barrett/Jordan21-Christie
22-Mo’unga
23-Clarke/GoodhueThat gives us plenty of options across the board.
I think Reece is the best winger in NZ right now. Playing well on both sides of the ball, has a high workrate, sniffs opportunities from not much and his support/chase game is Howlett-esque. For me he has to start.
I’m more and more in the “I really want to see Jordie at 2nd 5” camp. He looks assured there, runs hard and direct and gets him closer to the action. I do think Goodhue is what they’ve wanted, but I think his form will need to lift quite a bit to get an Ireland start.
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I think a 3/4 line of
13 Reiko , 14 Jordan , 15 Jordie , 11 Clarke / Reece
Has already got an abundance of pace and flair ,
I’m personally not sure you have to sacrifice a bit of safety under the high ball and kick returns , to add more pace and X factor .
Just think the balance looks pretty right to me but maybe I’m a bit conservative
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
I think a 3/4 line of
13 Reiko , 14 Jordan , 15 Jordie , 11 Clarke / Reece
Has already got an abundance of pace and flair ,
I’m personally not sure you have to sacrifice a bit of safety under the high ball and kick returns , to add more pace and X factor .
Just think the balance looks pretty right to me but maybe I’m a bit conservative
Not sure that's a conservative three quarter line up. Looks fucking good. At least one part of the team does ... yay.
Trouble is 5 into 4 doesn't go. I suppose you could find a bench spot for the leftover winger if you considered Jordie as the midfield cover (assuming halfback and Mo'unga the other benchies).
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@Asterik6 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
and the coaches would be idiots not to bring players like RTS who is already a proven world class athlete into the squad.
Genuine question here: How many games of top class Union has he played?
Professionally? 10 or so.
Schoolboy career as a rugby player though, so has a solid grounding. 12 is easier to read/play than 13. Still risky, but the question is whether the other attributes (stepping, defence) outweigh the experience risk. Either way, yo uhave to make a decision fast and he's in getting minutes, or out
I remember SBW being absolutely taken to pieces by Jamie Roberts on an EOYT where he was subbed at half-time for Nonu - and that was after 33+ games for Toulon. And we don't have anyone like Ma'a to fall back on.
Don't get me wrong, I really like what I've seen of RTS, just think the risks of putting him in the match-day XV against a world-class Ireland mid-field are way, way too much. Ideally, I'd like to see him in the larger squad and if that goes OK, on the bench for one of the later Tests so he can ease his way in.
My comment was around leaving him out of the squad, which would be crazy, he absolutely has to be there.
Pretty much agree so the coaches can have a good look at him - even if he doesn't get into the 23. A player def. worth investing time and effort in
Fact is we don't have a proven 12 right now. Thinking Tupea is that man is insane, he's as green as a green thing at test level and has only just started showing what he can do at Super level.
Not unlike RTS then?
when you compare RTS to the other options there's not much difference in terms of risk.
I disagree. You can argue that RTS's lack of experience at top level in the 15 man game makes QT look like a seasoned veteran.
Come on man, QT has 7 tests, most of which were against tier 2 teams, has he even started a test against a tier 1 team? I remember he was on the bench against SA? Hell he only has 28 games for the Chiefs. He's also only 23, do you really think throwing him in against a "world class" Irish midfield is a good idea at this stage of his career?
Isn't that exactly my point about RTS? And QT is still way, way more experienced - even if green
Point being we don't actually have a good option at 12 with ALB out now. I'd be leaning towards Goodhue starting with RTS on the bench at the moment, though I'd be more than happy with RTS starting too.
Yep. My guess is Goodhue at 12 with Havili on the bench. If Goodhue isn't fit, then Havili to start (shudder) with QT on the bench.
Tupaea started the last test of 2021 against France, Havili was demoted to the bench. It will most likely be Goodhue & Reiko starting with Tupaea providing impact off the bench.
Who would be the bench option for 15 cover do you think?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Asterik6 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
and the coaches would be idiots not to bring players like RTS who is already a proven world class athlete into the squad.
Genuine question here: How many games of top class Union has he played?
Professionally? 10 or so.
Schoolboy career as a rugby player though, so has a solid grounding. 12 is easier to read/play than 13. Still risky, but the question is whether the other attributes (stepping, defence) outweigh the experience risk. Either way, yo uhave to make a decision fast and he's in getting minutes, or out
I remember SBW being absolutely taken to pieces by Jamie Roberts on an EOYT where he was subbed at half-time for Nonu - and that was after 33+ games for Toulon. And we don't have anyone like Ma'a to fall back on.
Don't get me wrong, I really like what I've seen of RTS, just think the risks of putting him in the match-day XV against a world-class Ireland mid-field are way, way too much. Ideally, I'd like to see him in the larger squad and if that goes OK, on the bench for one of the later Tests so he can ease his way in.
My comment was around leaving him out of the squad, which would be crazy, he absolutely has to be there.
Pretty much agree so the coaches can have a good look at him - even if he doesn't get into the 23. A player def. worth investing time and effort in
Fact is we don't have a proven 12 right now. Thinking Tupea is that man is insane, he's as green as a green thing at test level and has only just started showing what he can do at Super level.
Not unlike RTS then?
when you compare RTS to the other options there's not much difference in terms of risk.
I disagree. You can argue that RTS's lack of experience at top level in the 15 man game makes QT look like a seasoned veteran.
Come on man, QT has 7 tests, most of which were against tier 2 teams, has he even started a test against a tier 1 team? I remember he was on the bench against SA? Hell he only has 28 games for the Chiefs. He's also only 23, do you really think throwing him in against a "world class" Irish midfield is a good idea at this stage of his career?
Isn't that exactly my point about RTS? And QT is still way, way more experienced - even if green
Point being we don't actually have a good option at 12 with ALB out now. I'd be leaning towards Goodhue starting with RTS on the bench at the moment, though I'd be more than happy with RTS starting too.
Yep. My guess is Goodhue at 12 with Havili on the bench. If Goodhue isn't fit, then Havili to start (shudder) with QT on the bench.
Tupaea started the last test of 2021 against France, Havili was demoted to the bench. It will most likely be Goodhue & Reiko starting with Tupaea providing impact off the bench.
Who would be the bench option for 15 cover do you think?
With that line up, BB to 15, RM to 10, or RI to wing, bench to 13, WJ to 15.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
I think a 3/4 line of
13 Reiko , 14 Jordan , 15 Jordie , 11 Clarke / Reece
Has already got an abundance of pace and flair ,
I’m personally not sure you have to sacrifice a bit of safety under the high ball and kick returns , to add more pace and X factor .
Just think the balance looks pretty right to me but maybe I’m a bit conservative
Not sure that's a conservative three quarter line up. Looks fucking good. At least one part of the team does ... yay.
Trouble is 5 into 4 doesn't go. I suppose you could find a bench spot for the leftover winger if you considered Jordie as the midfield cover (assuming halfback and Mo'unga the other benchies).
@booboo said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
I think a 3/4 line of
13 Reiko , 14 Jordan , 15 Jordie , 11 Clarke / Reece
Has already got an abundance of pace and flair ,
I’m personally not sure you have to sacrifice a bit of safety under the high ball and kick returns , to add more pace and X factor .
Just think the balance looks pretty right to me but maybe I’m a bit conservative
Not sure that's a conservative three quarter line up. Looks fucking good. At least one part of the team does ... yay.
Trouble is 5 into 4 doesn't go. I suppose you could find a bench spot for the leftover winger if you considered Jordie as the midfield cover (assuming halfback and Mo'unga the other benchies).
My thinking too.
60 minute mark Jordie moves to 12. Other winger comes on ( Think Reece is the better impact player but I accept ACT's point about his current form), Jordan moves to 15 and depending on how the game is going swap out the 10s.
This gives Jordie time in the midfield to see how he goes at this level, same with Jordan at 15 (who is our only other decent alternative at the moment). -
BB is more likely to move to fullback than be subbed off for Mo'unga. I think they'll want to keep the experienced players on the field.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
BB is more likely to move to fullback than be subbed off for Mo'unga. I think they'll want to keep the experienced players on the field.
Yes. But for RWC planning purposes we need Jordan to have some test time at the back (unless DMac is in their plans).
Happy for your scenario in the Ireland tests though. -
However, Stuff understands the veteran openside flanker has avoided any big damage and has instead been diagnosed with a strain.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Now, about those forwards....?
We're coming into the championship rounds now, but I really, really liked what I saw from Sotutu last weekend. Big work rate, massively effective.
If Ofa gets injured I think we're in trouble. Does Foster trust Samisoni to start?
Bloody better.
Ofa and Samisoni are two thirds of the starting front row. Loosehead is where they have big decisions to make.
They wont totally refresh things so I expect Sam W to be one lock. Vaa'i should be the other but it wouldn't surprise me if they go for Barrett.
Loosies will be the biggest point of fan argument. 7 must be Cane or Paps. 8 will be Savea (despite Sotutu playing well). Then it's just the old 6 'problem. I'm hoping that Akira can show good form in finals footy and demand that spotBower, Taylor, Ofa
Whitelock, Barrett
Papali'i/Cane, Savea, AkiraRes: Hodgman, Tauki'aho, Lomax, Va'ai, Papali'i/Cane
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Now, about those forwards....?
We're coming into the championship rounds now, but I really, really liked what I saw from Sotutu last weekend. Big work rate, massively effective.
If Ofa gets injured I think we're in trouble. Does Foster trust Samisoni to start?
Bloody better.
Ofa and Samisoni are two thirds of the starting front row. Loosehead is where they have big decisions to make.
They wont totally refresh things so I expect Sam W to be one lock. Vaa'i should be the other but it wouldn't surprise me if they go for Barrett.
Loosies will be the biggest point of fan argument. 7 must be Cane or Paps. 8 will be Savea (despite Sotutu playing well). Then it's just the old 6 'problem. I'm hoping that Akira can show good form in finals footy and demand that spotBower, Taylor, Ofa
Whitelock, Barrett
Papali'i/Cane, Savea, AkiraRes: Hodgman, Tauki'aho, Lomax, Va'ai, Papali'i/Cane
Right now, that starting 8 is pretty much what I'd expect Fozzie to pick for Test 1.
Cane over Papali'i, unless he decides Sam is no longer his captain.
I think Bower has the inside track at loosehead. I've been quietly impressed with him since Moody's injury, including his ball-carrying. Hard to see who would be ahead of him with Moody injured, Big Karl on a plane, and neither Hodgman nor de Groot (or anyone else?) having started/played in a big test.
I'll be very surprised if Tauki'aho starts over Taylor, though Coles might if he can prove his fitness. Right now I'm expecting Codie.
You'd think Ofa would be locked in - though I think Nepo will back him up. I'll be watching Newell and Lomax over the next few weeks - Lomax's shocker vs the Waratahs might see him pushed out. Newell is (I think) the same age and similarly experienced as Owen Franks when Owen got the call. If he can make every post a winner in the next few weeks he's a good chance of being in the squad.
Locks - when is Retallick back? If he's not in the picture then you'd think it will be the other experienced hands first up.
Ardie's a mortal lock at 8. I think Akira's size makes for a more balanced loose forward trio, but it could just as easily be Blackadder at 6.
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@TheMojoman said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Now, about those forwards....?
We're coming into the championship rounds now, but I really, really liked what I saw from Sotutu last weekend. Big work rate, massively effective.
If Ofa gets injured I think we're in trouble. Does Foster trust Samisoni to start?
Bloody better.
Ofa and Samisoni are two thirds of the starting front row. Loosehead is where they have big decisions to make.
They wont totally refresh things so I expect Sam W to be one lock. Vaa'i should be the other but it wouldn't surprise me if they go for Barrett.
Loosies will be the biggest point of fan argument. 7 must be Cane or Paps. 8 will be Savea (despite Sotutu playing well). Then it's just the old 6 'problem. I'm hoping that Akira can show good form in finals footy and demand that spotBower, Taylor, Ofa
Whitelock, Barrett
Papali'i/Cane, Savea, AkiraRes: Hodgman, Tauki'aho, Lomax, Va'ai, Papali'i/Cane
Right now, that starting 8 is pretty much what I'd expect Fozzie to pick for Test 1.
Cane over Papali'i, unless he decides Sam is no longer his captain.
I think Bower has the inside track at loosehead. I've been quietly impressed with him since Moody's injury, including his ball-carrying. Hard to see who would be ahead of him with Moody injured, Big Karl on a plane, and neither Hodgman nor de Groot (or anyone else?) having started/played in a big test.
I'll be very surprised if Tauki'aho starts over Taylor, though Coles might if he can prove his fitness. Right now I'm expecting Codie.
You'd think Ofa would be locked in - though I think Nepo will back him up. I'll be watching Newell and Lomax over the next few weeks - Lomax's shocker vs the Waratahs might see him pushed out. Newell is (I think) the same age and similarly experienced as Owen Franks when Owen got the call. If he can make every post a winner in the next few weeks he's a good chance of being in the squad.
Locks - when is Retallick back? If he's not in the picture then you'd think it will be the other experienced hands first up.
Ardie's a mortal lock at 8. I think Akira's size makes for a more balanced loose forward trio, but it could just as easily be Blackadder at 6.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Locks - when is Retallick back? If he's not in the picture then you'd think it will be the other experienced hands first up.
He's not been what he was. That injury then sabbatical have really hit his standard hard (sad face)
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@TheMojoman said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Now, about those forwards....?
We're coming into the championship rounds now, but I really, really liked what I saw from Sotutu last weekend. Big work rate, massively effective.
If Ofa gets injured I think we're in trouble. Does Foster trust Samisoni to start?
Bloody better.
Ofa and Samisoni are two thirds of the starting front row. Loosehead is where they have big decisions to make.
They wont totally refresh things so I expect Sam W to be one lock. Vaa'i should be the other but it wouldn't surprise me if they go for Barrett.
Loosies will be the biggest point of fan argument. 7 must be Cane or Paps. 8 will be Savea (despite Sotutu playing well). Then it's just the old 6 'problem. I'm hoping that Akira can show good form in finals footy and demand that spotBower, Taylor, Ofa
Whitelock, Barrett
Papali'i/Cane, Savea, AkiraRes: Hodgman, Tauki'aho, Lomax, Va'ai, Papali'i/Cane
Right now, that starting 8 is pretty much what I'd expect Fozzie to pick for Test 1.
Cane over Papali'i, unless he decides Sam is no longer his captain.
I think Bower has the inside track at loosehead. I've been quietly impressed with him since Moody's injury, including his ball-carrying. Hard to see who would be ahead of him with Moody injured, Big Karl on a plane, and neither Hodgman nor de Groot (or anyone else?) having started/played in a big test.
I'll be very surprised if Tauki'aho starts over Taylor, though Coles might if he can prove his fitness. Right now I'm expecting Codie.
You'd think Ofa would be locked in - though I think Nepo will back him up. I'll be watching Newell and Lomax over the next few weeks - Lomax's shocker vs the Waratahs might see him pushed out. Newell is (I think) the same age and similarly experienced as Owen Franks when Owen got the call. If he can make every post a winner in the next few weeks he's a good chance of being in the squad.
Locks - when is Retallick back? If he's not in the picture then you'd think it will be the other experienced hands first up.
Ardie's a mortal lock at 8. I think Akira's size makes for a more balanced loose forward trio, but it could just as easily be Blackadder at 6.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie's a mortal lock at 8. I think Akira's size makes for a more balanced loose forward trio, but it could just as easily be Blackadder at 6.
fucking yuck. old broken Cane, Savea at 8, Blackadder. Just putrid.
behind those locks?That pack screams depowered and unexplosive.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie's a mortal lock at 8. I think Akira's size makes for a more balanced loose forward trio, but it could just as easily be Blackadder at 6.
fucking yuck. old broken Cane, Savea at 8, Blackadder. Just putrid.
behind those locks?That pack screams depowered and unexplosive.
@mariner4life Well, don't shoot the messenger.
As I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie's a mortal lock at 8. I think Akira's size makes for a more balanced loose forward trio, but it could just as easily be Blackadder at 6.
fucking yuck. old broken Cane, Savea at 8, Blackadder. Just putrid.
behind those locks?That pack screams depowered and unexplosive.
@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
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@mariner4life Well, don't shoot the messenger.
As I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
s I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
it wasn't in 2021 if we aren't learning lessons.
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@mariner4life Well, don't shoot the messenger.
As I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Well, don't shoot the messenger.
As I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
Why cos foster will finally quit? He didn't after losing to Argentina's, he won't even if he loses the bled this year. And NZR will believe in their own internally assessed hype
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@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
Failures in selection and development: Lomax appears to be a bust, they invested in Bower rather than any of the others with much higher ceilings, pissed around with Ofa in the LH (edited to add), invested in Aumua who appears to be a bust, took too long to move on from Pat T, and haven't been prepared to make Retallick earn his jersey for roughly three years. Place that alongside ignoring Akira for a couple of seasons, and the fact that they must select Savea and we look a bit like Wales in black jerseys hoping that AWJ will have one more good game in him and our variety of half 6/half 7 loosies will turn it on for one day.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Well, don't shoot the messenger.
As I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
Why cos foster will finally quit? He didn't after losing to Argentina's, he won't even if he loses the bled this year. And NZR will believe in their own internally assessed hype
@Machpants Foster won't quit - or be sacked - but he would be forced to move his old guard on.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
Failures in selection and development: Lomax appears to be a bust, they invested in Bower rather than any of the others with much higher ceilings, pissed around with Ofa in the LH (edited to add), invested in Aumua who appears to be a bust, took too long to move on from Pat T, and haven't been prepared to make Retallick earn his jersey for roughly three years. Place that alongside ignoring Akira for a couple of seasons, and the fact that they must select Savea and we look a bit like Wales in black jerseys hoping that AWJ will have one more good game in him and our variety of half 6/half 7 loosies will turn it on for one day.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
bit like Wales in black jerseys hoping that AWJ will have one more good game in him and our variety of half 6/half 7 loosies will turn it on for one day.
that's really not bad at all
