All Blacks 2022
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dunno, I think our tight 5 is still capable of contesting the collisions better, for me it is how we are playing, which is just too passive.
If the players start doing what is needed, that tight 5 will be more than adequate, sure it aint gonna dominate as we would like, but with our backs, it will be sufficient to give them the space they need to tear shit up.
@taniwharugby more pick and goes like the second half vs France might be a good starting point.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
s I said earlier, getting beaten by Ireland might be the making of us in 2023.
it wasn't in 2021 if we aren't learning lessons.
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
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There is no doubt that the forwards need to be more direct, and a lot of that will come down to the players selected, irrespective of the tactics. Even though SR is a lot different to test rugby, the Blues have shown what happens if your tight five and loosies give you front-foot ball. To me, the props and locks are probably the key selections. If Foster and Plumtree get that wrong the backs will continue to struggle with slow ball and a rush defence.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
Failures in selection and development: Lomax appears to be a bust, they invested in Bower rather than any of the others with much higher ceilings, pissed around with Ofa in the LH (edited to add), invested in Aumua who appears to be a bust, took too long to move on from Pat T, and haven't been prepared to make Retallick earn his jersey for roughly three years. Place that alongside ignoring Akira for a couple of seasons, and the fact that they must select Savea and we look a bit like Wales in black jerseys hoping that AWJ will have one more good game in him and our variety of half 6/half 7 loosies will turn it on for one day.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
Failures in selection and development: Lomax appears to be a bust, they invested in Bower rather than any of the others with much higher ceilings, pissed around with Ofa in the LH (edited to add), invested in Aumua who appears to be a bust, took too long to move on from Pat T, and haven't been prepared to make Retallick earn his jersey for roughly three years. Place that alongside ignoring Akira for a couple of seasons, and the fact that they must select Savea and we look a bit like Wales in black jerseys hoping that AWJ will have one more good game in him and our variety of half 6/half 7 loosies will turn it on for one day.
depressingly accurate post
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
9-Smith
10-B. Barrett
11-Reece/Clarke
12-Goodhue/J. Barrett
13-Ioane
14-Jordan/Reece
15-J. Barrett/Jordan21-Christie
22-Mo’unga
23-Clarke/GoodhueThat gives us plenty of options across the board.
I think Reece is the best winger in NZ right now. Playing well on both sides of the ball, has a high workrate, sniffs opportunities from not much and his support/chase game is Howlett-esque. For me he has to start.
I’m more and more in the “I really want to see Jordie at 2nd 5” camp. He looks assured there, runs hard and direct and gets him closer to the action. I do think Goodhue is what they’ve wanted, but I think his form will need to lift quite a bit to get an Ireland start.
i think this is probably about right...but a little worrying its all the same names we've seen over the last few years...but THIS TIME things will be different
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@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021
they were? People were scathing after the Fiji games. We beat semi-pros. Then Fiji. Then the worst Puma side in a while. And the Cooper and especially Kerevi-less Wallabies. The South African games were basically draws. We weren't playing well.
It went to shit results-wise after that, but the signs were there.
Look, I'm far from doom and gloom. Some stuff was good even when we lost. And we are loaded with talent in the backs. a bit straighter at 10, the right 12, some actual time together, and there are a lot of points there.
I have serious issues around the pack though. My thoughts on Savea, and what he doesn't bring are well documented. We definitely need more physically at 6, and a 7 to put heat on the ball. Tight 5 players who can carry with venom, and actually attack a ruck a necessity. And more accuracy at set piece. The players are there. If they insist on dad's fucking army up front, then fucking coach them. -
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
i have very a different memory, i remember talking about even when we won we looked ropey, relying on moments of individual brilliance rather than a champion team playing together
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@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
The problem being is that it is likely the best available.
With the exception of Sammy T the alternatives are rather hit and hope.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life It's dispiriting to see pundits suggest the same failed tight five again and again. Not to mention the inadequate loose forwards.
The problem being is that it is likely the best available.
With the exception of Sammy T the alternatives are rather hit and hope.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I don't buy that for the front row at all.
Who are we looking at there though?
LH Grout and Hodgman
TH NewellPromising but not yet standouts
Others?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021
they were? People were scathing after the Fiji games. We beat semi-pros. Then Fiji. Then the worst Puma side in a while. And the Cooper and especially Kerevi-less Wallabies. The South African games were basically draws. We weren't playing well.
It went to shit results-wise after that, but the signs were there.
Look, I'm far from doom and gloom. Some stuff was good even when we lost. And we are loaded with talent in the backs. a bit straighter at 10, the right 12, some actual time together, and there are a lot of points there.
I have serious issues around the pack though. My thoughts on Savea, and what he doesn't bring are well documented. We definitely need more physically at 6, and a 7 to put heat on the ball. Tight 5 players who can carry with venom, and actually attack a ruck a necessity. And more accuracy at set piece. The players are there. If they insist on dad's fucking army up front, then fucking coach them.@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Tight 5 players who can carry with venom
that is a huge part of the problem, when they arent carrying, or getting us to or past the gain line, the additional load is going to others, taking them away from thier roles as well.
Often in the past 2 years our props have been there to hold up the scrum and make a few tackles, thier carries have been such that we expect SW & BBBR/SB to do extra carries, as well as our loosies, and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8, you want the game so he can roam and be available in the looser parts.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I don't buy that for the front row at all.
Who are we looking at there though?
LH Grout and Hodgman
TH NewellPromising but not yet standouts
Others?
@booboo said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I don't buy that for the front row at all.
Who are we looking at there though?
LH Grout and Hodgman
TH NewellPromising but not yet standouts
Others?
Vaai looks good - even when got thrown in the deep end Bledisloe 2 in 2020 at Eden Park he was good. The lad needs to play - can't develop being a squad lock who only ever gets thrown token minutes.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I don't buy that for the front row at all.
Who are we looking at there though?
LH Grout and Hodgman
TH NewellPromising but not yet standouts
Others?
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021
they were? People were scathing after the Fiji games. We beat semi-pros. Then Fiji. Then the worst Puma side in a while. And the Cooper and especially Kerevi-less Wallabies. The South African games were basically draws. We weren't playing well.
It went to shit results-wise after that, but the signs were there.
Look, I'm far from doom and gloom. Some stuff was good even when we lost. And we are loaded with talent in the backs. a bit straighter at 10, the right 12, some actual time together, and there are a lot of points there.
I have serious issues around the pack though. My thoughts on Savea, and what he doesn't bring are well documented. We definitely need more physically at 6, and a 7 to put heat on the ball. Tight 5 players who can carry with venom, and actually attack a ruck a necessity. And more accuracy at set piece. The players are there. If they insist on dad's fucking army up front, then fucking coach them.@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021
they were? People were scathing after the Fiji games. We beat semi-pros. Then Fiji. Then the worst Puma side in a while. And the Cooper and especially Kerevi-less Wallabies. The South African games were basically draws. We weren't playing well.
It went to shit results-wise after that, but the signs were there.
Look, I'm far from doom and gloom. Some stuff was good even when we lost. And we are loaded with talent in the backs. a bit straighter at 10, the right 12, some actual time together, and there are a lot of points there.
I have serious issues around the pack though. My thoughts on Savea, and what he doesn't bring are well documented. We definitely need more physically at 6, and a 7 to put heat on the ball. Tight 5 players who can carry with venom, and actually attack a ruck a necessity. And more accuracy at set piece. The players are there. If they insist on dad's fucking army up front, then fucking coach them.Around the time we beat the Argies, SA had lost to Oz and we were back to being No. 1 ranked team in the world.
There were even a few concessions that either Fozzie wasn't quite as bad as we thought, or that he'd been learning.
Without being too doom and gloom either, I think we have big issues in the forwards as well. I don't think we'll solve them by running out an uncohesive pack of fern favourites in the first test though.
TBH - if I was picking the team, the only change I'd look closely at for test 1 (compared to what I've ascribed to Fozzie) is Papali'i for Cane.
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@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
Chiefs scrum this year has been pretty awesome no matter who was starting. Considering that it has been a bit mix and match and the youth of the locks it shows some good performances from some under-rated and often maligned players.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Tight 5 players who can carry with venom
that is a huge part of the problem, when they arent carrying, or getting us to or past the gain line, the additional load is going to others, taking them away from thier roles as well.
Often in the past 2 years our props have been there to hold up the scrum and make a few tackles, thier carries have been such that we expect SW & BBBR/SB to do extra carries, as well as our loosies, and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8, you want the game so he can roam and be available in the looser parts.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8
Do you mean Aride? Who was the forward with consistently the highest DB and CB in the forwards all games he played last year? Often he would have more than all the other forwards combined. I really don't get this idea that Ardie is not line busting etc, cos he bloody well is! He's our only consistently effective line breaking forward. Although in the big games our line breaks and defenders beaten across the whole team were pathetic, often less than 10 for the game
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@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
He was brought into an AB camp last year so must be in the mix. I'd select him ahead of de Groot myself, who has been disappointing to me. Ross can scrummage and doesn't need medical attention every few minutes.
Ofa needs to transfer his Blues form this year to the ABs, because he hasn't always in the past. He looked very passive taking the ball into contact last year, maybe due to the injury.
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@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
Would like to see more of the players in the next 3 weeks leading up to the AB announcement, that will define selections one way or the other.
The selectors take a lot of interest in how players step up in the Finals when more pressure goes on.
I think a lot of people on the Fern will lock in the favourites for selection or disregard some in the next few weeks. -
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8
Do you mean Aride? Who was the forward with consistently the highest DB and CB in the forwards all games he played last year? Often he would have more than all the other forwards combined. I really don't get this idea that Ardie is not line busting etc, cos he bloody well is! He's our only consistently effective line breaking forward. Although in the big games our line breaks and defenders beaten across the whole team were pathetic, often less than 10 for the game
@Machpants for me, he isnt a line breaking 8, sure he carries alot, and through determination and leg drive will make the gainline and sometimes bust through eventually, but this isnt always ideal as while he is struggling for those 2m the rest of the d line is set, or the occasion he wriggles free, he sometimes gets isolated behind the 2 guys he broke from.
There is no doubting his workrate and what he does he does very well, but what he does needs to be complimented with the rest of our loosies.
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@Machpants for me, he isnt a line breaking 8, sure he carries alot, and through determination and leg drive will make the gainline and sometimes bust through eventually, but this isnt always ideal as while he is struggling for those 2m the rest of the d line is set, or the occasion he wriggles free, he sometimes gets isolated behind the 2 guys he broke from.
There is no doubting his workrate and what he does he does very well, but what he does needs to be complimented with the rest of our loosies.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants for me, he isnt a line breaking 8, sure he carries alot, and through determination and leg drive often will bust through eventually, but this isnt always ideal as while he is struggling for those 2m the rest of the d line is set, or the occasion he wriggles free, he sometimes gets isolated behind the 2 guys he broke from.
There is no doubting his workrate and what he does he does very well, but what he does needs to be complimented with the rest of our loosies.
exactly sums up my impression as well.
