All Blacks 2022
-
@booboo I must be the only one who's willing to put some faith in him on here. I still like what he brings to the table and think he'll be a good bench option going forward.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I must be the only one who's willing to put some faith in him on here. I still like what he brings to the table and think he'll be a good bench option going forward.
Sorry AM, which post were you referring to? Can't see on phone.
-
I know he's still young but that big unit Williams has 'reincarnation of Whoppa' written all over him.
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
I know he's still young but that big unit Williams has 'reincarnation of Whoppa' written all over him.
Am not writing him off. I understand the hesitancy though.
Bloke who has been bigger than everyone else throughout his career may not know how to get the most of his bulk.
Keeping an eye on him and his mobility and impacts. Am not unimpressed yet.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
No not just on that game over the last couple of seasons it has cropped up.Still not convinced as I said once the Finals are underway A lot more will come to light on a lot of player's, some will step up big time some will fold under pressure.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Hodgeman maybe one who stands up as I said I did quite like what I saw from him. -
@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
No not just on that game over the last couple of seasons it has cropped up.Still not convinced as I said once the Finals are underway A lot more will come to light on a lot of player's, some will step up big time some will fold under pressure.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Hodgeman maybe one who stands up as I said I did quite like what I saw from him.@Chris While I agree with you about performance at the business end of SR, there are big question marks about Bower as well. Remember SA test 2 last year when the replacement front row was back-pedalling? Aumua and Ofa were the others in that three. Moody will be missed in the scrum.
I am expecting both will be selected for the ABs with a toss-up between de Groot and Ross for the third position. If the ABs struggle in the scrum against Ireland we've got huge problems as Ireland was dominated by England and France during the 6N.
-
@Chris While I agree with you about performance at the business end of SR, there are big question marks about Bower as well. Remember SA test 2 last year when the replacement front row was back-pedalling? Aumua and Ofa were the others in that three. Moody will be missed in the scrum.
I am expecting both will be selected for the ABs with a toss-up between de Groot and Ross for the third position. If the ABs struggle in the scrum against Ireland we've got huge problems as Ireland was dominated by England and France during the 6N.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris While I agree with you about performance at the business end of SR, there are big question marks about Bower as well. Remember SA test 2 last year when the replacement front row was back-pedalling? Aumua and Ofa were the others in that three. Moody will be missed in the scrum.
I am expecting both will be selected for the ABs with a toss-up between de Groot and Ross for the third position. If the ABs struggle in the scrum against Ireland we've got huge problems as Ireland was dominated by England and France during the 6N.
Yes I agree with that too there are a heap of questions over a lot of players from last season.
-
The ideal loose forward trio for me is 6. Ioane 7. Papali'i and 8. Savea. All this concern about Ardie in this thread is rubbish, he was All Blacks player of the year for a reason last year and his form in Super Rugby in 2022 has been exceptional. There is no better 8 in New Zealand atm period.
From there I think we either have Blackadder or Sotutu on the bench with Savea covering 7 from 8.
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
-
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I must be the only one who's willing to put some faith in him on here. I still like what he brings to the table and think he'll be a good bench option going forward.
Sorry AM, which post were you referring to? Can't see on phone.
-
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
i have very a different memory, i remember talking about even when we won we looked ropey, relying on moments of individual brilliance rather than a champion team playing together
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
i have very a different memory, i remember talking about even when we won we looked ropey, relying on moments of individual brilliance rather than a champion team playing together
There were periods of play which were outstanding all over the park. The problem was maintaining that for long periods of time. Too often we lost momentum due to mistakes and lapses of concentration - which has been an issue for me since 2017
-
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
The other thing with Aumua is translating his game to test rugby. His speed and the more open nature of Super Rugby really suit him - it's whether he can morph his game to test rugby. There were plenty of sceptics about Dane Coles in his younger days about whether his game would ever translate to the ABs.
-
The ideal loose forward trio for me is 6. Ioane 7. Papali'i and 8. Savea. All this concern about Ardie in this thread is rubbish, he was All Blacks player of the year for a reason last year and his form in Super Rugby in 2022 has been exceptional. There is no better 8 in New Zealand atm period.
From there I think we either have Blackadder or Sotutu on the bench with Savea covering 7 from 8.
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
The other thing with Aumua is translating his game to test rugby. His speed and the more open nature of Super Rugby really suit him - it's whether he can morph his game to test rugby. There were plenty of sceptics about Dane Coles in his younger days about whether his game would ever translate to the ABs.
@KiwiMurph I feel the difference between D Coles and A Aumua is that Coles probably had more time to develop physically and was able to slowly put on size which made that transition to test rugby a lot smoother. Coles also didn’t have the tag of ‘next big star’ hanging over his head so was able to do his thing without too much pressure.
Whether it was intentional or not I feel Aumua put too much size on too early and I feel that has been detrimental to his development because to me he’s lost that speed and explosiveness that made him so deadly coming through the grades.
When you look at footage of when he ran around Bridge for example playing for the Wellington Lions VS his game now, he looks like a completely different player. I feel like he’s only starting to warm into his bigger frame which means he definitely isn’t the finished product.
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
The other thing with Aumua is translating his game to test rugby. His speed and the more open nature of Super Rugby really suit him - it's whether he can morph his game to test rugby. There were plenty of sceptics about Dane Coles in his younger days about whether his game would ever translate to the ABs.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
The other thing with Aumua is translating his game to test rugby. His speed and the more open nature of Super Rugby really suit him - it's whether he can morph his game to test rugby. There were plenty of sceptics about Dane Coles in his younger days about whether his game would ever translate to the ABs.
He’s potentially a very good player, as is Lomax, as was Patty T. He’s been in the environment since 2019 (edit: apprentice in 2017!) and doesn’t appear to be any better now than he was then. He’s been overtaken by Taukeiaho and isn’t looking like he’ll be first choice at the Canes until Coles says bye. With luck, he’ll suddenly get there, but right now I wouldn’t see him making a WC squad.
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
For all Ardie's good points, he's a leader but not a Captain. His Captaincy decisions are stuck at SR level, where sheer force of will and/or fancy moves can work much more often. TAKE THE FUCKING THREE! We don;t do it often enough anyway, Ardie is even less likely to.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
For all Ardie's good points, he's a leader but not a Captain. His Captaincy decisions are stuck at SR level, where sheer force of will and/or fancy moves can work much more often. TAKE THE FUCKING THREE! We don;t do it often enough anyway, Ardie is even less likely to.
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
For all Ardie's good points, he's a leader but not a Captain. His Captaincy decisions are stuck at SR level, where sheer force of will and/or fancy moves can work much more often. TAKE THE FUCKING THREE! We don;t do it often enough anyway, Ardie is even less likely to.
Whitelock is the obvious option. He’s our best lock, he’s a great decision maker under pressure and he is one of the older heads in the team.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
i have very a different memory, i remember talking about even when we won we looked ropey, relying on moments of individual brilliance rather than a champion team playing together
There were periods of play which were outstanding all over the park. The problem was maintaining that for long periods of time. Too often we lost momentum due to mistakes and lapses of concentration - which has been an issue for me since 2017
@Victor-Meldrew and that came back to alot of the decisions we made, which are impacted by the gameplan, leadership, fitness/fatigue and dealing with pressure, something we used to do so very well.
We know Richies captaincy wasnt without its issues, but for me the learning(s)
that came as he grew into his role were the key, I dont see that as much with Cane, dont get me wrong, he is a good leader, but not sure he can be a great one...I reckon Paps has it in him...if he gets the chancehttps://trainingground.guru/articles/how-the-all-blacks-perform-under-pressure
-
@Victor-Meldrew and that came back to alot of the decisions we made, which are impacted by the gameplan, leadership, fitness/fatigue and dealing with pressure, something we used to do so very well.
We know Richies captaincy wasnt without its issues, but for me the learning(s)
that came as he grew into his role were the key, I dont see that as much with Cane, dont get me wrong, he is a good leader, but not sure he can be a great one...I reckon Paps has it in him...if he gets the chancehttps://trainingground.guru/articles/how-the-all-blacks-perform-under-pressure
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
We know Richies captaincy wasnt without its issues, but for me the learning(s) that came as he grew into his role were the key, I dont see that as much with Cane, dont get me wrong, he is a good leader, but not sure he can be a great one.
The injuries haven't helped him develop and grow into the role. Not his fault, feel sorry for him,but that's life. Perhaps we need to start looking at who's the best captain for 2023 and start now? Is that Paps or is that a step too far at this stage?
-
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
"Lightweight" Segner is only 20 years old and weighs 108kg the same weight as Shannon Frizzell... but sure.
-
@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
"Lightweight" Segner is only 20 years old and weighs 108kg the same weight as Shannon Frizzell... but sure.
@Asterik6 said in All Blacks 2022:
@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
"Lightweight" Segner is only 20 years old and weighs 108kg the same weight as Shannon Frizzell... but sure.
Absolutely! Frizzell is 108kg polynesian who has a natural power far exceeding Segner. Same goes for guys like Maa Nonu who was also 108kg and hit Elsibeth harder than any other player alive. Maybe the same weight but he is a lightweight at scrum time. So yeah .. sure.
-
Frizell is quite a lot more than 108kgs.
Remember when Fozzie said he could potentially cover lock?
Read this excellent article about how big they want these guys for various positions.....and that's 4 years ago.
