All Blacks 2022
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants for me, he isnt a line breaking 8, sure he carries alot, and through determination and leg drive often will bust through eventually, but this isnt always ideal as while he is struggling for those 2m the rest of the d line is set, or the occasion he wriggles free, he sometimes gets isolated behind the 2 guys he broke from.
There is no doubting his workrate and what he does he does very well, but what he does needs to be complimented with the rest of our loosies.
exactly sums up my impression as well.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants for me, he isnt a line breaking 8, sure he carries alot, and through determination and leg drive often will bust through eventually, but this isnt always ideal as while he is struggling for those 2m the rest of the d line is set, or the occasion he wriggles free, he sometimes gets isolated behind the 2 guys he broke from.
There is no doubting his workrate and what he does he does very well, but what he does needs to be complimented with the rest of our loosies.
exactly sums up my impression as well.
me three
i feel its one of the biggest issues we have with this "15 individuals having moments of brilliance" approach, one of them might break the line....but no one was with him and the rest of the world has been working on their jackaling..we loose the ball, they boot it and now we're back to attacking from deep broken play
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8
Do you mean Aride? Who was the forward with consistently the highest DB and CB in the forwards all games he played last year? Often he would have more than all the other forwards combined. I really don't get this idea that Ardie is not line busting etc, cos he bloody well is! He's our only consistently effective line breaking forward. Although in the big games our line breaks and defenders beaten across the whole team were pathetic, often less than 10 for the game
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
and when your 8 isnt really a ball carrying line busting 8
Do you mean Aride? Who was the forward with consistently the highest DB and CB in the forwards all games he played last year? Often he would have more than all the other forwards combined. I really don't get this idea that Ardie is not line busting etc, cos he bloody well is! He's our only consistently effective line breaking forward. Although in the big games our line breaks and defenders beaten across the whole team were pathetic, often less than 10 for the game
I had a look at the games versus Oz, SA, and Argentina (ESPN stats):
Aug 7 (Oz): Savea 0 DB, 0 CB (forward leader was BBBR 2 DB, followed by Akira with 1 and a clean break)
Aug 14 (Oz): Savea 3 DB, 1 CB (equal for forward leader with Akira who also had 3 and 1 and 30 more metres)
Sep 5 (Oz): Savea 0 DB, 0 CB (forward leader was Akira who had 9 DB and 3 clean breaks for 86 metres)
Sep 12 (Arg): Savea didn’t play, but worth noting that Akira led forwards 5 DB and 1 clean break
Sep 18 (Arg): Savea 2 DB, 1 CB (forward leader was Sotutu who had 3 DB and 2 clean breaks, Akira was not playing)
Sep 25 (SA): Savea 3 DB, 0 CB (leader for forwards, second was Akira with 1 DB)
Oct 2 (SA loss): Savea 4 DB, 0 CB (leader for forwards, second was BBBR with 1 DB – no other forward beat a man in the game)I think we need to find ways to get the ball in Aki's hands on the edges.
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Oh, and I don't think Aumua is a "bust". Just not as good as we were hoping.
Good 4th best option who could fill a role. IMO
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I know he's still young but that big unit Williams has 'reincarnation of Whoppa' written all over him.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I don't buy that for the front row at all.
Who are we looking at there though?
LH Grout and Hodgman
TH NewellPromising but not yet standouts
Others?
Vaai looks good - even when got thrown in the deep end Bledisloe 2 in 2020 at Eden Park he was good. The lad needs to play - can't develop being a squad lock who only ever gets thrown token minutes.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I don't buy that for the front row at all.
Who are we looking at there though?
LH Grout and Hodgman
TH NewellPromising but not yet standouts
Others?
Vaai looks good - even when got thrown in the deep end Bledisloe 2 in 2020 at Eden Park he was good. The lad needs to play - can't develop being a squad lock who only ever gets thrown token minutes.
Wasnt considering the locks in that post
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@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
I had assumed Ofa starts.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
Would like to see more of the players in the next 3 weeks leading up to the AB announcement, that will define selections one way or the other.
The selectors take a lot of interest in how players step up in the Finals when more pressure goes on.
I think a lot of people on the Fern will lock in the favourites for selection or disregard some in the next few weeks. -
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
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@booboo I must be the only one who's willing to put some faith in him on here. I still like what he brings to the table and think he'll be a good bench option going forward.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I must be the only one who's willing to put some faith in him on here. I still like what he brings to the table and think he'll be a good bench option going forward.
Sorry AM, which post were you referring to? Can't see on phone.
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I know he's still young but that big unit Williams has 'reincarnation of Whoppa' written all over him.
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
I know he's still young but that big unit Williams has 'reincarnation of Whoppa' written all over him.
Am not writing him off. I understand the hesitancy though.
Bloke who has been bigger than everyone else throughout his career may not know how to get the most of his bulk.
Keeping an eye on him and his mobility and impacts. Am not unimpressed yet.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
No not just on that game over the last couple of seasons it has cropped up.Still not convinced as I said once the Finals are underway A lot more will come to light on a lot of player's, some will step up big time some will fold under pressure.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Hodgeman maybe one who stands up as I said I did quite like what I saw from him. -
@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
No not just on that game over the last couple of seasons it has cropped up.Still not convinced as I said once the Finals are underway A lot more will come to light on a lot of player's, some will step up big time some will fold under pressure.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Hodgeman maybe one who stands up as I said I did quite like what I saw from him.@Chris While I agree with you about performance at the business end of SR, there are big question marks about Bower as well. Remember SA test 2 last year when the replacement front row was back-pedalling? Aumua and Ofa were the others in that three. Moody will be missed in the scrum.
I am expecting both will be selected for the ABs with a toss-up between de Groot and Ross for the third position. If the ABs struggle in the scrum against Ireland we've got huge problems as Ireland was dominated by England and France during the 6N.
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@Chris While I agree with you about performance at the business end of SR, there are big question marks about Bower as well. Remember SA test 2 last year when the replacement front row was back-pedalling? Aumua and Ofa were the others in that three. Moody will be missed in the scrum.
I am expecting both will be selected for the ABs with a toss-up between de Groot and Ross for the third position. If the ABs struggle in the scrum against Ireland we've got huge problems as Ireland was dominated by England and France during the 6N.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris While I agree with you about performance at the business end of SR, there are big question marks about Bower as well. Remember SA test 2 last year when the replacement front row was back-pedalling? Aumua and Ofa were the others in that three. Moody will be missed in the scrum.
I am expecting both will be selected for the ABs with a toss-up between de Groot and Ross for the third position. If the ABs struggle in the scrum against Ireland we've got huge problems as Ireland was dominated by England and France during the 6N.
Yes I agree with that too there are a heap of questions over a lot of players from last season.
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The ideal loose forward trio for me is 6. Ioane 7. Papali'i and 8. Savea. All this concern about Ardie in this thread is rubbish, he was All Blacks player of the year for a reason last year and his form in Super Rugby in 2022 has been exceptional. There is no better 8 in New Zealand atm period.
From there I think we either have Blackadder or Sotutu on the bench with Savea covering 7 from 8.
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo I must be the only one who's willing to put some faith in him on here. I still like what he brings to the table and think he'll be a good bench option going forward.
Sorry AM, which post were you referring to? Can't see on phone.
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@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
i have very a different memory, i remember talking about even when we won we looked ropey, relying on moments of individual brilliance rather than a champion team playing together
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
i have very a different memory, i remember talking about even when we won we looked ropey, relying on moments of individual brilliance rather than a champion team playing together
There were periods of play which were outstanding all over the park. The problem was maintaining that for long periods of time. Too often we lost momentum due to mistakes and lapses of concentration - which has been an issue for me since 2017
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
The other thing with Aumua is translating his game to test rugby. His speed and the more open nature of Super Rugby really suit him - it's whether he can morph his game to test rugby. There were plenty of sceptics about Dane Coles in his younger days about whether his game would ever translate to the ABs.
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The ideal loose forward trio for me is 6. Ioane 7. Papali'i and 8. Savea. All this concern about Ardie in this thread is rubbish, he was All Blacks player of the year for a reason last year and his form in Super Rugby in 2022 has been exceptional. There is no better 8 in New Zealand atm period.
From there I think we either have Blackadder or Sotutu on the bench with Savea covering 7 from 8.
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
