Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz

Mokey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="585855" data-time="1465445128">
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This whole thing has been fascinating, from start to where we are now (it ain't finished). It's gone the whole hog.
 
Latest updates are mothers talking about their 2-4 year olds boys and talking about they must educate them etc etc.
 
Talk about over the top. One pumped up well heeled/educated guy gets pissed and attempts to rape a chick and now everybody else must change the way they educate? You can fuck off with that theory.
 
The father made a right douche of himself with his statement. He has to support his son, he has to. But jeeze pal, after he gets a light sentence to say that - head in the clouds.
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It's not over the top at all. Kids are never to young to learn about boundaries when it comes to others ie unwanted touching. By the time they hit their teens, it is way too late.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mokey" data-cid="585866" data-time="1465447751">
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It's not over the top at all. Kids are never to young to learn about boundaries when it comes to others ie unwanted touching. By the time they hit their teens, it is way too late.
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It totally is. It's typical one case, one incident and now every male is branded as "potentially being" that guy.
 
The guy was a rapist from a well-to-do family who thought they could fight the law by chucking money, power and privelege at it. The victim has called them out on it in a very big way and bravo for doing so.
 
What needs to change is a) rapists and b)the way things are approached by the priveleged.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mokey" data-cid="585866" data-time="1465447751">
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It's not over the top at all. Kids are never to young to learn about boundaries when it comes to others ie unwanted touching. By the time they hit their teens, it is way too late.
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Yes it fucking is. It is one of the things that really fucks me off. Because one male does something wrong, you dont need to start talking to small boys about rape. Any more than if a mother murders her child (more mothers murder their children than Dads btw), we need to start telling little girls not to murder people.
 
Anyone that thinks that teaching small kids not to touch other kids in 'inappropriate way' will stop them becoming a rapist is retarded. Rape is about power, therefore if anything we should just teach not to be bullying little entitled ass hats.
Sure if my son had touched a little girl in her crotch at daycare I would have said for him not do it and just said that you dont anyone down there.. regardless of gender. I would have said the same to my little girl f she had done it, gender and rape have no place in that discussion at that age
 
This rape culture narrative is complete and utter bullshit. Usually pushed by male hating feminists with serious mental health issues., And no I am not accusing you of this as you haven't mentioned rape culture.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="585871" data-time="1465448563">
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Yes it fucking is. It is one of the things that really fucks me off. Because one male does something wrong, you dont need to start talking to small boys about rape. Any more than if a mother murders her child (more mothers murder their children than Dads btw), we need to start telling little girls not to murder people.
 
Anyone that thinks that teaching small kids not to touch other kids in 'inappropriate way' will stop them becoming a rapist is retarded. Rape is about power, therefore if anything we should just teach not to be bullying little entitled ass hats.
Sure if my son had touched a little girl in her crotch at daycare I would have said for him not do it and just said that you dont anyone down there.. regardless of gender. I would have said the same to my little girl f she had done it, gender and rape have no place in that discussion at that age
 
This rape culture narrative is complete and utter bullshit. Usually pushed by male hating feminists with serious mental health issues., And no I am not accusing you of this as you haven't mentioned rape culture.
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To put it more simply. You HAVE to let them be kids first and foremost. I've had the usual issues you have with boys ie fighting and calling girls names etc but I've drilled it in them that it's not ok to hit girls.....and you only hit boys in self defence and as a last resort which is already a conflict I'm having with their Mum as I don't want them being pansys who go to the teacher every five minutes which is what she suggests at the first sign of any shit going down.
 
MajorRage I agree that victim statement was really brave even under the mask of anonymity......

Mokey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="585871" data-time="1465448563">
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Yes it fucking is. It is one of the things that really fucks me off. Because one male does something wrong, you dont need to start talking to small boys about rape. Any more than if a mother murders her child (more mothers murder their children than Dads btw), we need to start telling little girls not to murder people.
 
Anyone that thinks that teaching small kids not to touch other kids in 'inappropriate way' will stop them becoming a rapist is retarded. Rape is about power, therefore if anything we should just teach not to be bullying little entitled ass hats.
Sure if my son had touched a little girl in her crotch at daycare I would have said for him not do it and just said that you dont anyone down there.. regardless of gender. I would have said the same to my little girl f she had done it, gender and rape have no place in that discussion at that age
 
This rape culture narrative is complete and utter bullshit. Usually pushed by male hating feminists with serious mental health issues., And no I am not accusing you of this as you haven't mentioned rape culture.
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That is the only retarded statement. So there has been one rape case in the history of the world, has there? When we have stats like 1 in 5 women in NZ have been a victim of a serious sexual assault, it is clear that the problem is very widespread.
 
And it's not about talking rape to little kids, but ownership of their own bodies, saying no, and respecting no.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mokey" data-cid="585873" data-time="1465449381">
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That is the only retarded statement. So there has been one rape case in the history of the world, has there? When we have stats like 1 in 5 women in NZ have been a victim of a serious sexual assault, it is clear that the problem is very widespread.
 
And it's not about talking rape to little kids, but ownership of their own bodies, saying no, and respecting no.
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Considering that stat is completly bullshit. I think you need to reconsider. All part of the anti male rape culture rubbish,
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://socawlege.com/truth-behind-1-5-women-assaulted-campus-statistic/'>http://socawlege.com/truth-behind-1-5-women-assaulted-campus-statistic/</a>
 
 
As for one rape ever in the world... Yes Mokey.. yes that is what I was saying. Well spotted. Great critique.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="585872" data-time="1465449141">
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To put it more simply. You HAVE to let them be kids first and foremost. I've had the usual issues you have with boys ie fighting and calling girls names etc but I've drilled it in them that it's not ok to hit girls.....and you only hit boys in self defence and as a last resort which is already a conflict I'm having with their Mum as I don't want them being pansys who go to the teacher every five minutes which is what she suggests at the first sign of any shit going down.
 
MajorRage I agree that victim statement was really brave even under the mask of anonymity......
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Tell me about it. It's kind of shit having your 4 year old boy crying to you when his 2 year old sister hits him. He was taught right from the word go to not hit his younger sister and we dealt with everything extremely harshly. And now here we are!

Donsteppa

The Stanford kid is a cretin, and should be going away for six to ten years, and the father at the very least needs a clip around the ears.
 
However, when my Facebook page starts filling up with posts with headlines like: "Dear Dads: this is what rape culture looks like, and you're responsible", and following ones suggesting that if you "roll your eyes it's [some form of] privilege"... well, I start to roll my eyes.
 
On the whole, Terrible Two Year Old will learn far more about life from how I treat Mrs Steppa and my attitudes towards women than he will from any set of words that I use with him.
 
If I somehow fail, and the Toddler Steppa does go wrong later in life, unlike Stanford cretins, there'll be no defence argued from this Dad about his subsequent punishment.

dogmeat

Don - if I'd raped someone I'd have been more scared of my Dad's reaction / punishment than any courts.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585884" data-time="1465451261">
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Don - if I'd raped someone I'd have been more scared of my Dad's reaction / punishment than any courts.
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THIS!

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="585882" data-time="1465450943">
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The Stanford kid is a cretin, and should be going away for six to ten years, and the father at the very least needs a clip around the ears.
 
However, when my Facebook page starts filling up with posts with headlines like: "Dear Dads: this is what rape culture looks like, and you're responsible", and following ones suggesting that if you "roll your eyes it's [some form of] privilege"... well, I start to roll my eyes.
 
On the whole, Terrible Two Year Old will learn far more about life from how I treat Mrs Steppa and my attitudes towards women than he will from any set of words that I use with him.
 
If I somehow fail, and the Toddler Steppa does go wrong later in life, unlike Stanford cretins, there'll be no defence argued from this Dad about his subsequent punishment. 
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The problem is.. that you roll your eyes.. but some brain dead mothers take that seriously and start talking to small boys about rape and making them feel inherently bad just for having a penis.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585884" data-time="1465451261">
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Don - if I'd raped someone I'd have been more scared of my Dad's reaction / punishment than any courts.
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... on reflection, this may be where deadbeat or deliberately absent from their life Dads enter the equation to an extent.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585884" data-time="1465451261">
Don - if I'd raped someone I'd have been more scared of my Dad's reaction / punishment than any courts.</blockquote>If the guy was well raised but just happened to be a sicko bad seed it is terrible for the parents too. But based on the dad's statement I think it is more likely the kid was raised in an environment with a lack of accountability. If I did something out of line CF Snr punished me for it and I knew I'd done wrong. The same goes for CF jnr, if I think he's behaved poorly I punish him accordingly. You could assume the rapist had got away with a lot through his life for him to think what he did was a good idea

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="585899" data-time="1465453907">
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If the guy was well raised but just happened to be a sicko bad seed it is terrible for the parents too. But based on the dad's statement I think it is more likely the kid was raised in an environment with a lack of accountability. If I did something out of line CF Snr punished me for it and I knew I'd done wrong. The same goes for CF jnr, if I think he's behaved poorly I punish him accordingly. You could assume the rapist had got away with a lot through his life for him to think what he did was a good idea
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Yep. In this particular case, the Father's comment makes me wonder if he could somehow be charged and jailed for a severe case of Being a Cretin.

Baron Silas Greenback

If being a cretin is punishable by jail time, TSF had better hope jails have good interweb

dK

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="585864" data-time="1465447681">
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As a Dad to two young sons I'm kinda terrified that in just over ten years time I could be getting the call that one of them has gotten up to no good. I agree, it's very easy to point the finger at that Douchebag Dad but if any of us were in that situation would we not defend our kids too ?
 
Doesn't fucken bear thinking about really. I mean we've all done dumb shit on the piss as young fellas but 999 times out of 1000 it's silly hi jinks that can be laughed off in the cold light of sobriety.......
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No, I wouldn't defend them if they were convicted of such a heinous crime, BUT, I would still support them and love them and expect them to take responsibility for their "actions"

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="585905" data-time="1465454458">
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If being a cretin is punishable by jail time, TSF had better hope jails have good interweb
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Is that why we've lost a few posters in recent times?

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="585783" data-time="1465428174"><img src="

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="585785" data-time="1465428243">How are these fuckwits newsworthy? <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/80539917/freelee-the-banana-girl-and-vegan-youtubers-are-the-next-kardashians'>http://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/80539917/freelee-the-banana-girl-and-vegan-youtubers-are-the-next-kardashians</a></blockquote> I saw stuff.co.nz and kardashina in the link, so I didn't click on it.

canefan

In Brock Turner's home town, we're raising kids who are never told 'no'

By Kate Geiselman
<div>8:43 AM Thursday Jun 9, 2016</div>
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COMMENT: An alternate version of the Brock Turner sexual assault story has been spinning in my imagination since last January, when I first heard of his arrest.
In my version, he recognises that what happened on Stanford's campus behind that dumpster was rape. He comes to understand that intoxication is not consent. He takes responsibility for his violent "action" that irreparably harmed another human being, instead of blaming them on alcohol. Rather than spending a year and a half honing his story, making excuses and lawyering up, he pleads guilty. He looks his victim squarely in the eyes and says, "I'm sorry. I had no business putting my hands on or in you after you were no longer able to give consent. I should have helped you to safety instead of running and lying about why I did. I will do everything I can to spare you any further pain. I will spend the rest of my life educating young people about consent and sexual violence."
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Then he serves his punishment - perhaps even a sentence mitigated by his understanding of the crime, his taking responsibility, even his character references - because he gets it. He bears the weight of his guilt, and in doing so eases the burden of his victim.
But that's not what happened. And because I live in the community that spawned Brock Turner, I have known on some level for many months that my version would never be reality.
Oakwood, Ohio, is about as idyllic a Midwestern community as one could imagine. The streets are tree-lined, the houses charming. The kids walk to school and go home for lunch. The schools are nationally recognised. In fact, the nickname for Oakwood is "The Dome," so sheltered are its residents from violence, poverty and inconvenient truths. I have lived here for over 20 years.
Communities like this one have a dark side, though: the conflation of achievement with being "a good kid;" the pressure to succeed; the parents who shrug when the party in their basement gets out of control (or worse yet, when they host it) because "kids are gonna drink;" the tacit understanding that rules don't necessarily apply. The cops won't come. The axe won't fall.
Yet now it has.
Invariably, when I tell someone who knows Dayton that I live in Oakwood, they will assume that I am rich, narrow-minded, a Republican or some combination thereof. If most residents were just the stereotype, though, I would not have been happy here as long as I have. For the most part, I have loved raising my kids here. But I have struggled, too. My closest friends and I have a long-standing joke about needing to remember to "lower the bar" around here - about not falling prey to the pressures to conform and compete, not buying the line that the schools or the kids here are special. Most of us understand our privilege and good fortune. Many do not.
There is an Oakwood in every city; there's a Brock Turner in every Oakwood: the "nice," clean-cut, "happy-go-lucky," hyper-achieving kid who's never been told "no." There's nothing he can't have, do, or be, because he is special. Fortunately, most kids like this will march into their predictably bright futures without victimising anyone along the way. Many will do good in the world.
 
But it's not hard to draw a straight line from this little 'burb (or a hundred like it) to that dumpster at Stanford. What does being told "no" mean to that kid? If the world is his for the taking, isn't an unconscious woman's body? When he gets caught, why wouldn't his first impulse be to run, make excuses - blame the Fireball, or the girl or the campus drinking culture? That is entitlement. That is unchecked privilege.
When the news of Turner's arrest broke a year and a half ago, it was met in this community with a fair amount of shock and denial. Before details emerged, the whispered sentiments at Starbucks and in the aisles of the local grocery were compassion for his parents and hopes for a fair trial. In light of his conviction and sentencing, though, I find that I'm hiding from social media and avoiding conversations on this subject, lest I have to listen to someone defend him. I don't want to hear anyone start in about the nice family or the good kid. My kids went to high school with him. I ran the community center swim team he was on. No, I don't "know" Brock Turner like his friends or neighbors do. But I do know what he did, and so do we all, based on the unanimous verdict of a jury and two eyewitnesses.
We now also know exactly what his victim suffered, and we know that he doesn't own any of it. Neither do his apologists. Letters of support - his father's and at least one of his friends' - are making the rounds online, and they are shockingly tone-deaf. His father has blamed alcohol and promiscuity. His friend said, "Rape on campus isn't always because people are rapists." That either of these letters cut ice with the judge is just further proof of how broken the system is.
I thought the outrage over this story would start before now, but it took a victim's statement going viral to bring it the attention it deserves. At every turn, I've thought of how things could have gone differently. I've wondered if all of this was the attorney's doing - that Turner and his family were manipulated into denial because their lawyer told them there was no other alternative. But his father's letter and his own lame "apology" make it seem clear that they truly believe that bad timing and alcohol - not Turner himself - were to blame.
Ultimately, there is no happy ending to a story like this one, not in the version I imagined months ago or in the one that actually came to pass. I take some solace in the fact that the victim's brave, eloquent statement has brought more attention to rape culture than any single indictment or verdict could.
It's cold comfort, to be sure.
Geiselman is a writer and professor of English at Sinclair Community College in Dayton, Ohio.
- <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.washingtonpost.com/'>Washington Post</a>
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MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dK" data-cid="585906" data-time="1465454834">
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No, I wouldn't defend them if they were convicted of such a heinous crime, BUT, I would still support them and love them and expect them to take responsibility for their "actions"
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Fair call, better choice of words.

The Silver Fern

Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz