All Blacks 2022
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@Crucial and it might be what theyre planning, i hope so....i just have a unfounded fear that even though the squad has some new young names....our 23's are going to look very familiar
i think we've become a bit gun shy about throwing new guys in against tough opposition, i feel previously we felt coming through NPC and super rugby prepared guys well for the final step up to international rugby, even against top opposition...less so now
I'd like to see lord of vaai start with one of the older guys, not just off the bench
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like to see lord of vaai start with one of the older guys, not just off the bench
I'd like to think we'll see a fair bit of that this year. In fact, I can't see any other option.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
After around a quarter of a century on the Fern I don't think I've ever seem so many gems of wisdom from one poster.
I must be on your ignore list!
Your abilities are no match for the power of the daft side,
I'll give you a debate on rugby & we will soon see who ends up on the daft side... here's a hint, it won't be me.
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
After around a quarter of a century on the Fern I don't think I've ever seem so many gems of wisdom from one poster.
I must be on your ignore list!
Your abilities are no match for the power of the daft side,
I'll give you a debate on rugby & we will soon see who ends up on the daft side... here's a hint, it won't be me.
I’ll check my diary and see when I can make it to the old folks home. Is there a good time of day that doesn’t clash with your favourite talkback shows?
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The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level? -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Take Sam Cane. He was 101kg when he made his test début as a 20-year-old in June 2012. He's now 109kg - almost 10 per heavier in five years
fuck, imagine how slow he must have got
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Take Sam Cane. He was 101kg when he made his test début as a 20-year-old in June 2012. He's now 109kg - almost 10 per heavier in five years
fuck, imagine how slow he must have got
Mate, you're on fuckin' fire tonight - cracking me up.
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?Yup. Few AB teams will stand up to the 2015 RWC team
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?I might cut and paste this and put it in the cricket thread
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I think it doesn’t matter what sport you are playing, you try to do what makes your opponent uncomfortable.
I think that means taking them on and hopefully beating them upfront or like has been mentioned at least gaining parity .
They already know about our attacking threats, but if we get bullied again in the physical areas in the big games , we are becoming Australia , they have got us where they want us .
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?This.
Coaches (and I’m not making excuses here, just stating something) can only innovate as far as the levels of the players allow. Yes it is their job to improve those skills as well but it still comes down to the quality of the cattle. Mick Byrne was a big loss to our system. He was around so long that he basically owned the micro skills space and we didn’t have a ready replacement of similar quality.
That said I actually think we are on the up again with some very talented youngsters around. Now we need to add smarts and experience to that mix.
It may not happen in time for next year and you can’t deny the impact of Covid on our schedules and planning.
I remain positive in that we will always be a punchers chance and that some of the complacency should have well and truly gone. -
Hilarious ! didn't realize there were so many five year olds on here... some of you just can't get past me having a crack at some of you when I first joined, grow a pair.
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
Hilarious ! didn't realize there were so many five year olds on here.
Yeah, they're just lightweights aren't they. Probably why they are so quick....
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@akan004 How is Devlin a sports journalist?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@akan004 How is Devlin a sports journalist?
What didn't he ask?
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?@Dan54 stop shouting , you’ll wake the neighbours up ..!
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
No wonder biomag worked so well on irony man.
Can't wait to tell all the fellas down the club that I'm heavier and faster than I'm a freak athlete. It's science!
Sounds to me like the All Blacks need to take a leaf out of the 1905 invincibles. Pretty sure none of those speed freaks would have weighed over 90kg, including the forwards !
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
No wonder biomag worked so well on irony man.
Can't wait to tell all the fellas down the club that I'm heavier and faster than I'm a freak athlete. It's science!
Sounds to me like the All Blacks need to take a leaf out of the 1905 invincibles. Pretty sure none of those speed freaks would have weighed over 90kg, including the forwards !
1905 Originals
1924 Invincibles -
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happen
This. Need to stop being either passive or going for miracle plays when things are going against us. Knuckle down, play some controlled rugby to get out of the bad patch and start to exert some dominance
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
After around a quarter of a century on the Fern I don't think I've ever seem so many gems of wisdom from one poster.
I must be on your ignore list!
Your abilities are no match for the power of the daft side,
I'll give you a debate on rugby & we will soon see who ends up on the daft side... here's a hint, it won't be me.
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
After around a quarter of a century on the Fern I don't think I've ever seem so many gems of wisdom from one poster.
I must be on your ignore list!
Your abilities are no match for the power of the daft side,
I'll give you a debate on rugby & we will soon see who ends up on the daft side... here's a hint, it won't be me.
What's your opinion on players like Matt Dunning and Reuben Kruger?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
This!
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
If we can get enough big bodies carrying, we won't need props to do it, we can have a core role/clean job for the fatties, which is about all they are good for.
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
@canefan I think you can see his influence at the Blues, and the way they are playing, putting bodies into counter rucks, plenty of movement around the ball.
Sure the Blues have been a team on the rise in the past few years, but Schmidt seems to added some steel and fine tuning.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
@canefan If I have a criticism of Schmidt it is that his Irish teams were too structured, so there needs to be a balance. As @taniwharugby says, the Blues are the blueprint of how the ABs can play to maximise the ability of the players, while not sacrificing physicality.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
I thought Schmidt's biggest contribution to Ireland was a harder work ethic and belief more than any particular style or tactic. That has come after him.
France are currently blessed with some generational talent and a coach/team that are happy to build around that.
Schmidt will certainly bring some insight into methods and the plans being used to nullify the AB way. We need to counter those plans without allowing time for a counter-counter.
This is where the RWC disrupts the normal 'every game counts' edict. There is so much analysis and planning these days that if you have anything new you need to hold on to it and practice it in increments.
You can bet your bottom dollar that Eddie Jones is banking on a surprise. That's his style. Given that his side of the draw doesn't need to do much until the semis he's a good shot of making a final again. This time he will be trying to find a two game plan instead of the one game one.
We will likely play either SA or Ireland in the quarters. Two very good teams will leave the tournament in the quarters this time such are the pools.
I dont think it matters too much which of those two we play so we don't need to show our hand against France in our pool. Funny thing is that France will think the same. -
@canefan If I have a criticism of Schmidt it is that his Irish teams were too structured, so there needs to be a balance. As @taniwharugby says, the Blues are the blueprint of how the ABs can play to maximise the ability of the players, while not sacrificing physicality.
@Bovidae adding a bit of structure to our game would certainly help, but as you say, it's getting that balance right with our natural attacking game as well.
