All Blacks 2022
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@akan004 How is Devlin a sports journalist?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@akan004 How is Devlin a sports journalist?
What didn't he ask?
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?@Dan54 stop shouting , you’ll wake the neighbours up ..!
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
No wonder biomag worked so well on irony man.
Can't wait to tell all the fellas down the club that I'm heavier and faster than I'm a freak athlete. It's science!
Sounds to me like the All Blacks need to take a leaf out of the 1905 invincibles. Pretty sure none of those speed freaks would have weighed over 90kg, including the forwards !
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
No wonder biomag worked so well on irony man.
Can't wait to tell all the fellas down the club that I'm heavier and faster than I'm a freak athlete. It's science!
Sounds to me like the All Blacks need to take a leaf out of the 1905 invincibles. Pretty sure none of those speed freaks would have weighed over 90kg, including the forwards !
1905 Originals
1924 Invincibles -
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happen
This. Need to stop being either passive or going for miracle plays when things are going against us. Knuckle down, play some controlled rugby to get out of the bad patch and start to exert some dominance
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
After around a quarter of a century on the Fern I don't think I've ever seem so many gems of wisdom from one poster.
I must be on your ignore list!
Your abilities are no match for the power of the daft side,
I'll give you a debate on rugby & we will soon see who ends up on the daft side... here's a hint, it won't be me.
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
After around a quarter of a century on the Fern I don't think I've ever seem so many gems of wisdom from one poster.
I must be on your ignore list!
Your abilities are no match for the power of the daft side,
I'll give you a debate on rugby & we will soon see who ends up on the daft side... here's a hint, it won't be me.
What's your opinion on players like Matt Dunning and Reuben Kruger?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
This!
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
If we can get enough big bodies carrying, we won't need props to do it, we can have a core role/clean job for the fatties, which is about all they are good for.
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
@canefan I think you can see his influence at the Blues, and the way they are playing, putting bodies into counter rucks, plenty of movement around the ball.
Sure the Blues have been a team on the rise in the past few years, but Schmidt seems to added some steel and fine tuning.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
@canefan If I have a criticism of Schmidt it is that his Irish teams were too structured, so there needs to be a balance. As @taniwharugby says, the Blues are the blueprint of how the ABs can play to maximise the ability of the players, while not sacrificing physicality.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
I think (hope) that this will happen with the introduction of Schmidt.
I am curious to know how he will influence our play. You would think he is the man to introduce the best parts of the current NH game into our own patterns
I thought Schmidt's biggest contribution to Ireland was a harder work ethic and belief more than any particular style or tactic. That has come after him.
France are currently blessed with some generational talent and a coach/team that are happy to build around that.
Schmidt will certainly bring some insight into methods and the plans being used to nullify the AB way. We need to counter those plans without allowing time for a counter-counter.
This is where the RWC disrupts the normal 'every game counts' edict. There is so much analysis and planning these days that if you have anything new you need to hold on to it and practice it in increments.
You can bet your bottom dollar that Eddie Jones is banking on a surprise. That's his style. Given that his side of the draw doesn't need to do much until the semis he's a good shot of making a final again. This time he will be trying to find a two game plan instead of the one game one.
We will likely play either SA or Ireland in the quarters. Two very good teams will leave the tournament in the quarters this time such are the pools.
I dont think it matters too much which of those two we play so we don't need to show our hand against France in our pool. Funny thing is that France will think the same. -
@canefan If I have a criticism of Schmidt it is that his Irish teams were too structured, so there needs to be a balance. As @taniwharugby says, the Blues are the blueprint of how the ABs can play to maximise the ability of the players, while not sacrificing physicality.
@Bovidae adding a bit of structure to our game would certainly help, but as you say, it's getting that balance right with our natural attacking game as well.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
This!
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
If we can get enough big bodies carrying, we won't need props to do it, we can have a core role/clean job for the fatties, which is about all they are good for.
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
Henry used this tactic during the mid 2000's using Jerry as a distributor in the midfield and it worked really well.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
They are almost a package deal on the bench
Sotutu is difficult to have on the bench because he only plays 8. So he covers 8 and Ardie can shift across to cover 7. However, to effectively cover 6 you really need a lock/loosie
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@canefan I think you can see his influence at the Blues, and the way they are playing, putting bodies into counter rucks, plenty of movement around the ball.
Sure the Blues have been a team on the rise in the past few years, but Schmidt seems to added some steel and fine tuning.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@canefan I think you can see his influence at the Blues, and the way they are playing, putting bodies into counter rucks, plenty of movement around the ball.
Sure the Blues have been a team on the rise in the past few years, but Schmidt seems to added some steel and fine tuning.
Yep but he on Blues coaching staff, with ABs he's a selector.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
I’d like them to pick a team that can play to a plan, rather than the supposed ‘best’ players.
Ardie is a weapon off the bench, but we’d be better served with Sotutu starting alongside Akira, to take advantage of a similar open field running game, but better line out and distribution.
One potential issue for me is that we need the third running threat - the Blues lose something at scrum time with Robinson at lock, but they get his work rate on both sides of the ball. If BBBR cant bring that game again, its time for him to be a squaddie (I think he’ll probably be ok).
I’m interested to see Lord get some opportunities to play the Whitelock role alongside the top team. I’d be swapping in one of them in test 2 & 3 to see him and Vaii alongside the other ‘premier’ lock.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
They are almost a package deal on the bench
Sotutu is difficult to have on the bench because he only plays 8. So he covers 8 and Ardie can shift across to cover 7. However, to effectively cover 6 you really need a lock/loosie
@Duluth Yep that's one thing i'd like to see change this season for the All Blacks - bench players picked for impact rather than just cover.
Just because a player is a better starter than another player doesn't mean they are a better bench option. I think the likes of Blackadder and Jacobson are better suited to starting than bench. Papali'i would need to prove he can add impact off of the bench too - he'd be straight into 7 if Cane wasn't available and he can theoretically cover all 3 loose forward roles but he also needs to show he can add impact off of the bench.
