All Blacks 2022
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@canefan If I have a criticism of Schmidt it is that his Irish teams were too structured, so there needs to be a balance. As @taniwharugby says, the Blues are the blueprint of how the ABs can play to maximise the ability of the players, while not sacrificing physicality.
@Bovidae adding a bit of structure to our game would certainly help, but as you say, it's getting that balance right with our natural attacking game as well.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
This!
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
If we can get enough big bodies carrying, we won't need props to do it, we can have a core role/clean job for the fatties, which is about all they are good for.
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
Henry used this tactic during the mid 2000's using Jerry as a distributor in the midfield and it worked really well.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
They are almost a package deal on the bench
Sotutu is difficult to have on the bench because he only plays 8. So he covers 8 and Ardie can shift across to cover 7. However, to effectively cover 6 you really need a lock/loosie
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@canefan I think you can see his influence at the Blues, and the way they are playing, putting bodies into counter rucks, plenty of movement around the ball.
Sure the Blues have been a team on the rise in the past few years, but Schmidt seems to added some steel and fine tuning.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@canefan I think you can see his influence at the Blues, and the way they are playing, putting bodies into counter rucks, plenty of movement around the ball.
Sure the Blues have been a team on the rise in the past few years, but Schmidt seems to added some steel and fine tuning.
Yep but he on Blues coaching staff, with ABs he's a selector.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
He and Ioane have a fantastic long passing game.
I think that the identification of Vai'i is also a good indicator. One of his best skills is his ball handling. has soft hands and can distribute either side. Just needs to work on the decision making.
A good indicator of his handling is his lineout work. Soft takes that allow swift accurate distribution to the halfback who can be on the move already.Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
I’d like them to pick a team that can play to a plan, rather than the supposed ‘best’ players.
Ardie is a weapon off the bench, but we’d be better served with Sotutu starting alongside Akira, to take advantage of a similar open field running game, but better line out and distribution.
One potential issue for me is that we need the third running threat - the Blues lose something at scrum time with Robinson at lock, but they get his work rate on both sides of the ball. If BBBR cant bring that game again, its time for him to be a squaddie (I think he’ll probably be ok).
I’m interested to see Lord get some opportunities to play the Whitelock role alongside the top team. I’d be swapping in one of them in test 2 & 3 to see him and Vaii alongside the other ‘premier’ lock.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Yep - I think with Vaai the thing is he needs opportunities to play - in 2020 he was thrown into the fire in the Bledisloes out of necessity and he equipped himself very well - two years later it's time to start getting him into the 23 - perhaps with his ability to cover 6 he becomes an even more attractive bench option.
Similar with Sotutu who likewise has excellent soft handling skills - he was excellent off the bench in the Boks 1 game last year (win) and then was mostly unsighted the rest of the season. I realise you can't fit everyone into a 23 but I hope during the first 5 tests we don't just see Whitelock/Retallick/Barrett lock rotation only.
They are almost a package deal on the bench
Sotutu is difficult to have on the bench because he only plays 8. So he covers 8 and Ardie can shift across to cover 7. However, to effectively cover 6 you really need a lock/loosie
@Duluth Yep that's one thing i'd like to see change this season for the All Blacks - bench players picked for impact rather than just cover.
Just because a player is a better starter than another player doesn't mean they are a better bench option. I think the likes of Blackadder and Jacobson are better suited to starting than bench. Papali'i would need to prove he can add impact off of the bench too - he'd be straight into 7 if Cane wasn't available and he can theoretically cover all 3 loose forward roles but he also needs to show he can add impact off of the bench.
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@nzzp the skills and form Sotutu has shown the past month or so should really be giving the coaches thoughts about whether they start Ardie at 8 or not, but we know, he and Cane are penciled in at 8/7 respectively.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp the skills and form Sotutu has shown the past month or so should really be giving the coaches thoughts about whether they start Ardie at 8 or not, but we know, he and Cane are penciled in at 8/7 respectively.
I don't know. Ardie really is a hard one. We all know that his selection causes imbalances in the loosies but he is an extremely talented and tenacious player that has the respect of others. We wish others had his skills but he really isn't a pure 6, 7 or 8.
We haven't seen them try him on the bench enough IMO. Maybe it's because they couldn't last year the way things panned out with him having to fill in as captain.
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition. -
In a personal thing I would be very keen to see Ardie used of the bench, I will also acknowledge I would need him in squad somewhere, just like the idea of him against tiring defences etc, but he needs to be there somewhere.
And I will also say that is only if I had the brains to be a selector and coach of anything above club rugby which is all I got too, so won't argue too much if they see him as a starter. -
@Duluth Yep that's one thing i'd like to see change this season for the All Blacks - bench players picked for impact rather than just cover.
Just because a player is a better starter than another player doesn't mean they are a better bench option. I think the likes of Blackadder and Jacobson are better suited to starting than bench. Papali'i would need to prove he can add impact off of the bench too - he'd be straight into 7 if Cane wasn't available and he can theoretically cover all 3 loose forward roles but he also needs to show he can add impact off of the bench.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth Yep that's one thing i'd like to see change this season for the All Blacks - bench players picked for impact rather than just cover.
Just because a player is a better starter than another player doesn't mean they are a better bench option. I think the likes of Blackadder and Jacobson are better suited to starting than bench. Papali'i would need to prove he can add impact off of the bench too - he'd be straight into 7 if Cane wasn't available and he can theoretically cover all 3 loose forward roles but he also needs to show he can add impact off of the bench.
its scary to think the AB's coaches might not have picked up on something thats been common for +15 years, 16-23 are their own positions...not just cover if someone gets injured
clubs dont always have the luxury but international teams can literally pick who they want, there are several guys that never looked as good starting as they did coming off the bench...but thats ok
edit: the best example i have as a former hooker and highlander fan, when we had Dixon and Coltman...Dixon was the "better" hooker...but, i prefered when we started with coltman, did more running and was a little younger, let him take some hits and wear them out....and then bring on the better lineout thrower and the "cooler head" to close out the game, less errors and suddenly our lineout/drive becomes a weapon....but thats the opposite of "starting the best"
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I think we only need to look at what Schmidt did with Ireland, I am sure nearly every game we lost the Fern would have had very few Irish in a combined 23 yet they were able to disrupt and beat us. Schmidt showed that 23 players playing with structure and a plan can beat 23 players who arguably have a lot more talent.
The key for the AB's as mentioned is merging the AB's talent with the structure and discipline of the NH sides.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth Yep that's one thing i'd like to see change this season for the All Blacks - bench players picked for impact rather than just cover.
Just because a player is a better starter than another player doesn't mean they are a better bench option. I think the likes of Blackadder and Jacobson are better suited to starting than bench. Papali'i would need to prove he can add impact off of the bench too - he'd be straight into 7 if Cane wasn't available and he can theoretically cover all 3 loose forward roles but he also needs to show he can add impact off of the bench.
its scary to think the AB's coaches might not have picked up on something thats been common for +15 years, 16-23 are their own positions...not just cover if someone gets injured
clubs dont always have the luxury but international teams can literally pick who they want, there are several guys that never looked as good starting as they did coming off the bench...but thats ok
edit: the best example i have as a former hooker and highlander fan, when we had Dixon and Coltman...Dixon was the "better" hooker...but, i prefered when we started with coltman, did more running and was a little younger, let him take some hits and wear them out....and then bring on the better lineout thrower and the "cooler head" to close out the game, less errors and suddenly our lineout/drive becomes a weapon....but thats the opposite of "starting the best"
@Kiwiwomble Who do you think are the best 16-23 in the squad? Fakatava, Ardie, PGS, spring to mind.
ST would be amazing but I want him starting so I guess Coles will have the better impact than Taylor. Ofa T is one of the better ball carrying props. Perhaps Mounga as 10 cover but to be fair I dont really want BB or JB moving from their better positions so perhaps Perofeta is better. Thoughts?
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@Kiwiwomble Who do you think are the best 16-23 in the squad? Fakatava, Ardie, PGS, spring to mind.
ST would be amazing but I want him starting so I guess Coles will have the better impact than Taylor. Ofa T is one of the better ball carrying props. Perhaps Mounga as 10 cover but to be fair I dont really want BB or JB moving from their better positions so perhaps Perofeta is better. Thoughts?
@chimoaus im never good at actually making lists....always forget someone
but you can see what those guys would bring against a tiring less structured opposition....you can imagine the breaks that would be made around the breakdown....and god forbid if we actually trained for it and so whoever is 14 and 15 in the final 20-30 knew to be hunting in behind the breakdown
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@akan004 How is Devlin a sports journalist?
What didn't he ask?
@booboo said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@akan004 How is Devlin a sports journalist?
What didn't he ask?
? He starts off by suggesting the following may have been unlucky: Hall, Bridge, Ennor, TJP...
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I think we only need to look at what Schmidt did with Ireland, I am sure nearly every game we lost the Fern would have had very few Irish in a combined 23 yet they were able to disrupt and beat us. Schmidt showed that 23 players playing with structure and a plan can beat 23 players who arguably have a lot more talent.
The key for the AB's as mentioned is merging the AB's talent with the structure and discipline of the NH sides.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
The key for the AB's as mentioned is merging the AB's talent with the structure and discipline of the NH sides.
And recognising the NH went away after 4 SH Semifinalists in 2015, and got better. Can we do the same? Right now it doesn't look it to be frank, SH is not clearly dominant like we used to be.
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Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
i just realised i said basically this when talking about the Chiefs first season under Rennie. Who was the previous coach i was talking about? I forget
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
Honest question, what do we want from the AB's in 2022/23? How do they evolve to match the strengths of the NH teams and SA. How do we combat the rush defence, low error rates and suffocating play that is so effective against us.
I simply cannot see how the Foster led 2019-2021 ABs can magically change without some fundamental changes.
I would love to hear from the strategists on the Fern of what gameplan and players can help us climb back to the top.
You’ll have more luck finding the yeti or unicorn before you find one of those on here…
My 2 cents:
- winning the Irish series
- development of our loose forward combination
- our midfielders getting through the test season without injury
- seeing Sami, S. Barrett, Sotutu, A. Ioane, Reece, Jordan all take that next step up in their test careers.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
My 2 cents:
winning the Irish series
Three zip. Can't permit them to win here.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
This!
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
If we can get enough big bodies carrying, we won't need props to do it, we can have a core role/clean job for the fatties, which is about all they are good for.
Bodies in motion causes the defence to make decisions. I can't believe how often as a coach and a player I have to tell people that it isn't a case of waiting until you get the ball to do something.
