All Blacks 2022
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
100% this, with the talent at our disposal our bench should always be a weapon.
We've had that luxury in the past, but I'm not too sure we do at this moment in time. Agree we need to use the bench better though.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
100% this, with the talent at our disposal our bench should always be a weapon.
We've had that luxury in the past, but I'm not too sure we do at this moment in time. Agree we need to use the bench better though.
i could believe we have the talent...i just think how we want to play or are trying to play doesn't always work with the talent we have
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No need to have Perofeta on the bench with Mo'unga. Jordan can cover fullback so have an impact winger there. That could be Reece, Clarke or Fainga'anuku depending on who starts at 11.
I am not expecting Taukei'aho to start, which will be a big mistake.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
I am not expecting Taukei'aho to start, which will be a big mistake.
I agree, but I suppose Foster might see some logic in using him for impact off the bench for a must-win 1st Test.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
I am not expecting Taukei'aho to start, which will be a big mistake.
I agree, but I suppose Foster might see some logic in using him for impact off the bench for a must-win 1st Test.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
I am not expecting Taukei'aho to start, which will be a big mistake.
I agree, but I suppose Foster might see some logic in using him for impact off the bench for a must-win 1st Test.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
I am not expecting Taukei'aho to start, which will be a big mistake.
I agree, but I suppose Foster might see some logic in using him for impact off the bench for a must-win 1st Test.
Lomu would have had great impact off the bench.
Samisoni is better than Taylor. So he should start.
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@Victor-Meldrew Given that we have been chasing games, rather than putting the opposition under pressure, that would be particularly stupid!
@Tim yeah we need to start winning games, we don't have the superior fitness and blockbusters on the bench to chase games at the moment, so agree, get out of the gate quicker.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
This!
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
If we can get enough big bodies carrying, we won't need props to do it, we can have a core role/clean job for the fatties, which is about all they are good for.
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
Pre captain Read used to be very good at this role, not quite the deft skill of Sotutu but there is hope as they've done it before in recentish times.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
I am not expecting Taukei'aho to start, which will be a big mistake.
I agree, but I suppose Foster might see some logic in using him for impact off the bench for a must-win 1st Test.
Lomu would have had great impact off the bench.
Samisoni is better than Taylor. So he should start.
@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
I am not expecting Taukei'aho to start, which will be a big mistake.
I agree, but I suppose Foster might see some logic in using him for impact off the bench for a must-win 1st Test.
Lomu would have had great impact off the bench.
Would he though? The advantage of a strike player starting is that the opposition don’t know when the strike is coming. Put them on for 15 minutes and they can stifle the plan to get them the ball. Look what SA managed in 2015 with Lomu and that was starting.
I do prefer the thought of Reece coming on as an impact though. His busyness makes him unpredictable. -
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp the skills and form Sotutu has shown the past month or so should really be giving the coaches thoughts about whether they start Ardie at 8 or not, but we know, he and Cane are penciled in at 8/7 respectively.
I don't know. Ardie really is a hard one. We all know that his selection causes imbalances in the loosies but he is an extremely talented and tenacious player that has the respect of others. We wish others had his skills but he really isn't a pure 6, 7 or 8.
We haven't seen them try him on the bench enough IMO. Maybe it's because they couldn't last year the way things panned out with him having to fill in as captain.
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition.
All three of them go hard. Ardie fizzing off the bench will pick up the slack for the other two anyway!
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition.
All three of them go hard. Ardie fizzing off the bench will pick up the slack for the other two anyway!
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition.
All three of them go hard. Ardie fizzing off the bench will pick up the slack for the other two anyway!
No matter what, I think Sotutu has to be in the 23. Whether on the bench or even starting. In the scenario we lose Cane or Ardie, Sotutu slots in. If we lost Akira, we have the option to have Ardie and Cane play left and right side or we move Barrett (or Vaa’i) to blindside. That move will largely depend on opponent and time of game.
Sotutu is too good to leave out and his improvement this season show he’s upped his workrate on both sides of the ball, accuracy at the ruck, whilst providing a ball running option.
I think they’ll go for Ardie to start the first test, but hey they could surprise us.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition.
All three of them go hard. Ardie fizzing off the bench will pick up the slack for the other two anyway!
No matter what, I think Sotutu has to be in the 23. Whether on the bench or even starting. In the scenario we lose Cane or Ardie, Sotutu slots in. If we lost Akira, we have the option to have Ardie and Cane play left and right side or we move Barrett (or Vaa’i) to blindside. That move will largely depend on opponent and time of game.
Sotutu is too good to leave out and his improvement this season show he’s upped his workrate on both sides of the ball, accuracy at the ruck, whilst providing a ball running option.
I think they’ll go for Ardie to start the first test, but hey they could surprise us.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition.
All three of them go hard. Ardie fizzing off the bench will pick up the slack for the other two anyway!
No matter what, I think Sotutu has to be in the 23. Whether on the bench or even starting. In the scenario we lose Cane or Ardie, Sotutu slots in. If we lost Akira, we have the option to have Ardie and Cane play left and right side or we move Barrett (or Vaa’i) to blindside. That move will largely depend on opponent and time of game.
Sotutu is too good to leave out and his improvement this season show he’s upped his workrate on both sides of the ball, accuracy at the ruck, whilst providing a ball running option.
I think they’ll go for Ardie to start the first test, but hey they could surprise us.
Yeah, quite keen to see how Sowakula is going to go too though. Him and Ioane on at the same time could cause some opposition a few headaches.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
As a bench option we could move everyone around. It may create options of tasking Akira or Hoskins or Cane to go extra hard for 50 minutes. We could mix it up and adjust according to the game and opposition.
All three of them go hard. Ardie fizzing off the bench will pick up the slack for the other two anyway!
No matter what, I think Sotutu has to be in the 23. Whether on the bench or even starting. In the scenario we lose Cane or Ardie, Sotutu slots in. If we lost Akira, we have the option to have Ardie and Cane play left and right side or we move Barrett (or Vaa’i) to blindside. That move will largely depend on opponent and time of game.
Sotutu is too good to leave out and his improvement this season show he’s upped his workrate on both sides of the ball, accuracy at the ruck, whilst providing a ball running option.
I think they’ll go for Ardie to start the first test, but hey they could surprise us.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
I think they’ll go for Ardie to start the first test, but hey they could surprise us.
Haha yeah right
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@Nepia so much hate inside you…
On your team, I don’t think we can afford to start both Laulala and Karl T. That was a glaring problem for us previously. If both are in the team I hope only one of them starts and the other off the bench.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia so much hate inside you…
On your team, I don’t think we can afford to start both Laulala and Karl T. That was a glaring problem for us previously. If both are in the team I hope only one of them starts and the other off the bench.
They’re our best scrummagers. But think we can start Ofa and Karl and get a good mix, then Nepo and Bower/Ross to finish.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?This.
Coaches (and I’m not making excuses here, just stating something) can only innovate as far as the levels of the players allow. Yes it is their job to improve those skills as well but it still comes down to the quality of the cattle. Mick Byrne was a big loss to our system. He was around so long that he basically owned the micro skills space and we didn’t have a ready replacement of similar quality.
That said I actually think we are on the up again with some very talented youngsters around. Now we need to add smarts and experience to that mix.
It may not happen in time for next year and you can’t deny the impact of Covid on our schedules and planning.
I remain positive in that we will always be a punchers chance and that some of the complacency should have well and truly gone.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?This.
Coaches (and I’m not making excuses here, just stating something) can only innovate as far as the levels of the players allow. Yes it is their job to improve those skills as well but it still comes down to the quality of the cattle. Mick Byrne was a big loss to our system. He was around so long that he basically owned the micro skills space and we didn’t have a ready replacement of similar quality.
That said I actually think we are on the up again with some very talented youngsters around. Now we need to add smarts and experience to that mix.
It may not happen in time for next year and you can’t deny the impact of Covid on our schedules and planning.
I remain positive in that we will always be a punchers chance and that some of the complacency should have well and truly gone.I think this may be one area where Foster and co, to date, have not done well - not necessarily improving inadequate players, but adapting a game plan to suit the skills and abilities of the payers at their disposal. The 2011-2015 game plan worked so amazingly well, not because it was inherently amazing, but because of the amazing talents of the players could and did pull it off. Frankly, I don't think any team from the professional area had the personnel to play the way that team did and with the success that they did.
This team simply doesn't have the talent to constantly play and search for width like the 2011-2015 team did. Even with real talent bubbling under, they need to master much more simplified and easy to execute game plans before they work their way up to the 2011-2015 game plan (or its modern day equivalent). Indeed, the 2011-2015 had been building towards from 2004 in all reality.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nevorian said in All Blacks 2022:
Discipline - cannot afford to play against the Irish with only 14 players on the field, or any other team for that matter.
this aspect will be interesting (in a morbid way) how many Red Cards are we expecting in the 3 tests?
I'm picking at least 1 red and 3 or 4 yellows, I'd prefer zero, but cant see it...
NH refs, and going by the NH poster comments on here there is way less tolerance around high shots as they all want full reds.
i think i would roll my eyes less about cards for things like head contact if we were having lots of them for more trivial things, cards for things like "deliberate" knock ons or scrums being treated as almost the same as head contact
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nevorian said in All Blacks 2022:
Discipline - cannot afford to play against the Irish with only 14 players on the field, or any other team for that matter.
this aspect will be interesting (in a morbid way) how many Red Cards are we expecting in the 3 tests?
I'm picking at least 1 red and 3 or 4 yellows, I'd prefer zero, but cant see it...
NH refs, and going by the NH poster comments on here there is way less tolerance around high shots as they all want full reds.
i think i would roll my eyes less about cards for things like head contact if we were having lots of them for more trivial things, cards for things like "deliberate" knock ons or scrums being treated as almost the same as head contact
Upvote for correct terminology (non use of downs).
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@pakman I'm genuinely excited by the return of a full "B" team
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:
I quite like that squad (won't bother nit picking around a few names).
What it shows is that we could be sending a next level team to play Tier two nations and promote the 'brand' easily. The only trouble may be that this team would still handle most Tier Two countries with relative ease. Games against a fully selected Fiji or Argentina would be interesting.
I mentioned in the Oz Rugby thread that our seconds would eat their seconds and this list would back that up IMO. -
We need to be playing the B teams from Aust, Arg and SA. That would provide a higher level of opposition so a win-win for all countries.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
We need to be playing the B teams from Aust, Arg and SA. That would provide a higher level of opposition so a win-win for all countries.
We do as far as development goes but we would also be looking to 'tour' this team to places like Japan and USA to promote the 'brand' for the new paymasters.
