All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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Been saying for a while and Its become pretty obvious that the ABs pack over the last 4 years have an issue with consistently producing quality performance week after week.
It’s only when they have been embarrassed that the produce a performance. Then settle back to mediocre standards.
What’s not clear is the reason why, but everyone one involved must accept responsibility. Maybe it really is just a case that we aren’t very good.
It’s pretty uncomfortable viewing seeing how well drilled this Ireland team is compared to the ABs. Huge gulf in how they are prepared in my view.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
It’s only when they have been embarrassed that the produce a performance. Then settle back to mediocre standards.
In which case it can't be just the tactics, quality of players or skill levels - it seems to indicate a head-space or culture thing and/or performing under pressure.
Maybe Foster is acutely aware of this but just isn't able to change it. A big clear-out sometimes works but a bit tricky this side of the RWC and we don't have the depth of cattle instantly available. Dumping Foster isn't the answer on it's own either.
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@mikedogz said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I learnt today that the TMO has an assistant TMO and they have 11 screens to look at. Club ref today said he got to sit in room.
Who monitors the performance of TMO, and what plays he chooses to highlight? This is becoming a game changing issue.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mikedogz said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I learnt today that the TMO has an assistant TMO and they have 11 screens to look at. Club ref today said he got to sit in room.
Who monitors the performance of TMO, and what plays he chooses to highlight? This is becoming a game changing issue.
Foster references TMO telling ref of penalty in first lineout, not given, which led to first try. For instance.
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As an Allblacks supporter this is a mind fuck ,
I’ve been wanting to support this current coaching set up , just because I want the Allblacks to succeed not because I like or dislike any of them,
But I’m convinced now we need a reset from the top, and the only way that happens if we lose more games and I can’t bring myself to hope we lose .
If we win next week and we keep the bledisloe, foster survives imo even if the rugby is still shit . And we will meander down the same path towards the World Cup .
But can you imagine the backlash if we lose next week and then we fuck up the bledisloe? Nz will go into meltdown.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
It’s only when they have been embarrassed that the produce a performance. Then settle back to mediocre standards.
In which case it can't be just the tactics, quality of players or skill levels - it seems to indicate a head-space or culture thing and/or performing under pressure.
Maybe Foster is acutely aware of this but just isn't able to change it. A big clear-out sometimes works but a bit tricky this side of the RWC and we don't have the depth of cattle instantly available. Dumping Foster isn't the answer on it's own either.
Yes I agree, the holy grail of any professional - sport or otherwise is to consistently produce high quality work.
This was happening under Hansen, a couple of losses then were followed by very good performances.
NZR is not an elite high performance organisation which is being mirrored across most of their brands - ABs, black ferns, mens 7’s.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
It’s only when they have been embarrassed that the produce a performance. Then settle back to mediocre standards.
In which case it can't be just the tactics, quality of players or skill levels - it seems to indicate a head-space or culture thing and/or performing under pressure.
Maybe Foster is acutely aware of this but just isn't able to change it. A big clear-out sometimes works but a bit tricky this side of the RWC and we don't have the depth of cattle instantly available. Dumping Foster isn't the answer on it's own either.
@Victor-Meldrew Mostly disagree noting your disclaimer that he is not the only problem. Dumping him would be the smart thing to do though. We know he does not have the goods and the World Cup is pretty much a goner under his leadership. So what’s the purpose of holding on to him and the rest of the crew? Better to blood someone new with fresh eyes and see what can be done to salvage this mess.
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As an Allblacks supporter this is a mind fuck ,
I’ve been wanting to support this current coaching set up , just because I want the Allblacks to succeed not because I like or dislike any of them,
But I’m convinced now we need a reset from the top, and the only way that happens if we lose more games and I can’t bring myself to hope we lose .
If we win next week and we keep the bledisloe, foster survives imo even if the rugby is still shit . And we will meander down the same path towards the World Cup .
But can you imagine the backlash if we lose next week and then we fuck up the bledisloe? Nz will go into meltdown.
@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
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@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
That changes everything and it is still possible because we can still beat anyone on our day ,
but does anyone believe we are travelling down the best possible path to achieve that ?
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@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
Can't see that happening, you can't get lucky 7? games in a row vs quality sides. Wales just beat SA, so in reality this WC will be the most competitive. I hate to say it but Ireland, Wales, France, England and SA are all capable of beating us at the moment. For us to win the WC we need more than luck.
Hell even Aus and Argentina based in last night's performance could be an issue.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
That changes everything and it is still possible because we can still beat anyone on our day ,
but does anyone believe we are travelling down the best possible path to achieve that ?
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As an Allblacks supporter this is a mind fuck ,
I’ve been wanting to support this current coaching set up , just because I want the Allblacks to succeed not because I like or dislike any of them,
But I’m convinced now we need a reset from the top, and the only way that happens if we lose more games and I can’t bring myself to hope we lose .
If we win next week and we keep the bledisloe, foster survives imo even if the rugby is still shit . And we will meander down the same path towards the World Cup .
But can you imagine the backlash if we lose next week and then we fuck up the bledisloe? Nz will go into meltdown.
@kiwiinmelb I cannot see us winning next week bar us wetting all of our powder.
We are clueless, we still have no idea how to deal with the rush defence...we kick largely aimlessly, we attack the same channel again and again while thier defence simply presses up and smothers us over and over, until we drop the ball or kick the ball.
Some selection issues, I think largely the team is there and is good enough (but age is definitely a factor) the coaches seem to lack the ability to read the game and use subs accordingly.
Then there is the rules around accidental head contacts, I absolutely get the need to protect the head, but accidental head contacts do not warrant a red card, they should be for filth acts..
And then there is the ridiculous rule that saw Ardie go off too, I didn't know that one, but leaving that aside, what is the point of the rule? Why is he not even allowed to be subbed back later?
Sure the fact we are average as hell at present is a factor, but I really don't enjoy watching much rugby beyond club footy or Northland like i used to (although I have a love hate issue there too, but it is different...)
I actually am not that bothered we lost, we didnt deserve it, we simply have no idea at present, whereas years gone by I'd be pissed off.
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@Victor-Meldrew Mostly disagree noting your disclaimer that he is not the only problem. Dumping him would be the smart thing to do though. We know he does not have the goods and the World Cup is pretty much a goner under his leadership. So what’s the purpose of holding on to him and the rest of the crew? Better to blood someone new with fresh eyes and see what can be done to salvage this mess.
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew Mostly disagree noting your disclaimer that he is not the only problem. Dumping him would be the smart thing to do though. We know he does not have the goods and the World Cup is pretty much a goner under his leadership. So what’s the purpose of holding on to him and the rest of the crew? Better to blood someone new with fresh eyes and see what can be done to salvage this mess.
He may not be the biggest problem and, on it's own, getting rid of him might simply delay facing up to, or obscure, the real root cause of poor performance. Let's not simply shift deckchairs a la Titanic and avoid facing up to the real issues. Probably better to actually understand where and what the mess is before deciding on who should fix it. And no, that's not a Foster endorsement.
At times we play bloody well and the next week we are crap. One week our tactics are great, the next they aren't, one week Leicester is great, the next he isn't. It's simplistic to put all that down to one man.
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@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
I still think we can beat anyone on our day , we beat Ireland last week , we beat South Africa last year , maybe a question mark over France , but agree we can’t maintain a consistency to win 3 big games in successive weeks . I can’t see that happening right now for sure .
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
I still think we can beat anyone on our day , we beat Ireland last week , we beat South Africa last year , maybe a question mark over France , but agree we can’t maintain a consistency to win 3 big games in successive weeks . I can’t see that happening right now for sure .
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
I still think we can beat anyone on our day , we beat Ireland last week , we beat South Africa last year , maybe a question mark over France , but agree we can’t maintain a consistency to win 3 big games in successive weeks . I can’t see that happening right now for sure .
Four more years
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
I still think we can beat anyone on our day , we beat Ireland last week , we beat South Africa last year , maybe a question mark over France , but agree we can’t maintain a consistency to win 3 big games in successive weeks . I can’t see that happening right now for sure .
Four more years
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
I still think we can beat anyone on our day , we beat Ireland last week , we beat South Africa last year , maybe a question mark over France , but agree we can’t maintain a consistency to win 3 big games in successive weeks . I can’t see that happening right now for sure .
Four more years
... unless the draw opens up for us. Miracles happen at world cups. 2007 SA got knockout games against Fiji Argentina England. I'd back us to win those.
And this is how far off the pace we are. Hoping for a good draw, rather than actually playing dominant rugby consistently. Going to be a long couple of years
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@kiwiinmelb I cannot see us winning next week bar us wetting all of our powder.
We are clueless, we still have no idea how to deal with the rush defence...we kick largely aimlessly, we attack the same channel again and again while thier defence simply presses up and smothers us over and over, until we drop the ball or kick the ball.
Some selection issues, I think largely the team is there and is good enough (but age is definitely a factor) the coaches seem to lack the ability to read the game and use subs accordingly.
Then there is the rules around accidental head contacts, I absolutely get the need to protect the head, but accidental head contacts do not warrant a red card, they should be for filth acts..
And then there is the ridiculous rule that saw Ardie go off too, I didn't know that one, but leaving that aside, what is the point of the rule? Why is he not even allowed to be subbed back later?
Sure the fact we are average as hell at present is a factor, but I really don't enjoy watching much rugby beyond club footy or Northland like i used to (although I have a love hate issue there too, but it is different...)
I actually am not that bothered we lost, we didnt deserve it, we simply have no idea at present, whereas years gone by I'd be pissed off.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I actually am not that bothered we lost, we didnt deserve it, we simply have no idea at present, whereas years gone by I'd be pissed off.
Tends to happen when you get used to losing, I am the same, used to be gutted after a loss, but now I hate to say its normal.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I actually am not that bothered we lost, we didnt deserve it, we simply have no idea at present, whereas years gone by I'd be pissed off.
Tends to happen when you get used to losing, I am the same, used to be gutted after a loss, but now I hate to say its normal.
@chimoaus dunno, I still get annoyed when Northland lose, so you'd think I'd be used to it.
I think the entertainment factor is dropping, we are no longer innovative, we are no longer leaders, we are now followers, and you know what, we are shit at this too cos we haven't adapted any of the methods working for other teams too, we stay in our lane, every now and then pop into the fast lane, but always drift back into the slow lane ready for the inevitable break down.
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@kiwiinmelb I cannot see us winning next week bar us wetting all of our powder.
We are clueless, we still have no idea how to deal with the rush defence...we kick largely aimlessly, we attack the same channel again and again while thier defence simply presses up and smothers us over and over, until we drop the ball or kick the ball.
Some selection issues, I think largely the team is there and is good enough (but age is definitely a factor) the coaches seem to lack the ability to read the game and use subs accordingly.
Then there is the rules around accidental head contacts, I absolutely get the need to protect the head, but accidental head contacts do not warrant a red card, they should be for filth acts..
And then there is the ridiculous rule that saw Ardie go off too, I didn't know that one, but leaving that aside, what is the point of the rule? Why is he not even allowed to be subbed back later?
Sure the fact we are average as hell at present is a factor, but I really don't enjoy watching much rugby beyond club footy or Northland like i used to (although I have a love hate issue there too, but it is different...)
I actually am not that bothered we lost, we didnt deserve it, we simply have no idea at present, whereas years gone by I'd be pissed off.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb I cannot see us winning next week bar us wetting all of our powder.
I actually am not that bothered we lost, we didnt deserve it, we simply have no idea at present, whereas years gone by I'd be pissed off.
I the same tanuwha, I call it maturing, when I was young I would get pissed off when ABs or other teams I followed lost, and then one day I realised that no we don't have the automatic right to win, and there is a reason it's called sport, because it's a contest and ni guarantees! I actually believe I enjoyed the game a lot more after I came to that conclusion!
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Hello folks, been awhile! I never saw the game, nor last weeks either, only the brief highlights on YouTube. The comment section on YouTube is in stark contrast to the comments in here. I must direct that poster to the fern
Gracious indeed.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb I cannot see us winning next week bar us wetting all of our powder.
I actually am not that bothered we lost, we didnt deserve it, we simply have no idea at present, whereas years gone by I'd be pissed off.
I the same tanuwha, I call it maturing, when I was young I would get pissed off when ABs or other teams I followed lost, and then one day I realised that no we don't have the automatic right to win, and there is a reason it's called sport, because it's a contest and ni guarantees! I actually believe I enjoyed the game a lot more after I came to that conclusion!
@Dan54 nah, it's different in recent years, I barely care any more, I still care when Northland loses, but I find myself not caring about AB losses in recent years...it more about frustration through lack of learning (I can assure you Northland make all of the errors that the national.side do, and more at coaching, selection and play)
I don't know what it is, part maturity maybe....
