All Blacks 2022
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@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
Players have different interests. Some wnat to know all the stats. Other don't. The coache should have used this as a motivational factor. Maybe this is part of the issue with these Foster teams
BTW how many games have Ireland won in NZ. Including all matches..
Oh fuck off. Players that actually care about legacy, as they keep crapping on about, would know this shit.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
Players have different interests. Some wnat to know all the stats. Other don't. The coache should have used this as a motivational factor. Maybe this is part of the issue with these Foster teams
BTW how many games have Ireland won in NZ. Including all matches..
Oh fuck off. Players that actually care about legacy, as they keep crapping on about, would know this shit.
Correct, you can't care about a legacy without knowing what the fuck that legacy is!
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
Players have different interests. Some wnat to know all the stats. Other don't. The coache should have used this as a motivational factor. Maybe this is part of the issue with these Foster teams
BTW how many games have Ireland won in NZ. Including all matches..
Oh fuck off. Players that actually care about legacy, as they keep crapping on about, would know this shit.
Correct, you can't care about a legacy without knowing what the fuck that legacy is!
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
I look at this interview and I wonder much the same thing. Where's the pride? They talk about it but no one seemed upset to be the player that ruined a legacy in a dog shit performance.
It looks to me that the pendulum has gone too far. Once upon a time there were good men who took ownership and drove high performance within the team environment. Now it seems that's taken for granted rather than delegated based on performance.
"It's like an Origin decider" No fluffybunny. It's much more important than that.
Its right at the end if anyone wants to hear the comment (7.25 on)
Ardie does say it does hurt. I thought he came across well. Although the coaches should have stressed the never won in Nz before before the first test
Ardie might be too honest.
The coaches shouldn't need to know this. A good culture driven by high performing players would know their history. Not so long ago I remember players playing out of fear of being the first to lose. This lot appear to be free to "express their skills" as they "walk forward and embrace the challenge" and unencumbered by fear have managed to lose to Argentina, Ireland in Ireland and now Ireland in New Zealand on their way to our lowest historic ranking!
What's next on this rocket ship to mediocrity?
Players have different interests. Some wnat to know all the stats. Other don't. The coache should have used this as a motivational factor. Maybe this is part of the issue with these Foster teams
BTW how many games have Ireland won in NZ. Including all matches..
Oh fuck off. Players that actually care about legacy, as they keep crapping on about, would know this shit.
Correct, you can't care about a legacy without knowing what the fuck that legacy is!
My view is the coaches / management have failed badly. More so than the player.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
Yikes, how many others have such a bad record?
He's been there for most of our worst performances in the last few years. It would be interesting to see who have been the common players through those losses and who have not.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
Im sure he was aware of this. It was a big deal that Ireland had finally won. Myabe he just slipped up in a media press conference situation.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
That explains things, he thinks it's fucking common. Strange how we keep losing to Ireland with the World's Best Player.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Ardie Savea saying in his press conference today that he didn't know that the All Blacks had never lost to Ireland in NZ before Saturday.
Seriously wtf?
A senior leader in the team and the ABs home record isn't touched upon at all in the leadup to the series?
What the hell is going on with the AB culture?
jesus thats bad
seriously though, is there a chance he's played in all the losses? cant be bothered going back and looking at the squads, if so i wonder about how many head knocks hes had if he cant remember being part of the FIRST loss to ireland and therefore they cant have won in NZ before
sometime i feel a lot of these players wouldn;t even watch rugby if they weren't getting payed to play
ok, i couldn't help myself, went back, Ardie has played in all 4 losses to Ireland (bench for the soldier field game), the fact he is so unaware is shocking
Im sure he was aware of this. It was a big deal that Ireland had finally won. Myabe he just slipped up in a media press conference situation.
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@Winger you're more forgiving than I, he didn't just give a one word answer to a question and so might have misheard, he said he didn't know this was their first win until the boys were talking about it
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Winger you're more forgiving than I, he didn't just give a one word answer to a question and so might have misheard, he said he didn't know this was their first win until the boys were talking about it
I am it seems :smiling_face_with_halo: . I thought overall Ardie came across well. But I put it more down to the coaches / management. I amazed the history isn't discussed before every tour. For example how many tours of NZ by this team, the win / loss record broken down by tests / provincial etc, years and so on. Use this as a motivational factor
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Possibly another reason why things turned to custard with him absent on the weekend.
That didn't seem to help in Dublin and Paris last year when Whitelock was the captain. It's more about the lack of nous and game awareness from team than just the captain.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Possibly another reason why things turned to custard with him absent on the weekend.
That didn't seem to help in Dublin and Paris last year when Whitelock was the captain. It's more about the lack of nous and game awareness from team than just the captain.
Yeah this whole situation is not about one person or one thing. It’s a culmination of several issues.
Whitelock’s presence no doubt makes a difference to our chances of winning in terms of his on field play and experience - 133 tests and only 16 losses. All of our great captains saw losses. It’s all part of the learning process for them.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
For all the "Foster bashing", it isn't coming from a very passive media who seem quite subdued. The Breakdown was deliberately obtuse and shallow (Access to AB camp on their mind?). It seems the obvious flaws in the ABs are being analyzed by fans, blogs, and overseas media.
100%
The NZRU must have journalists afraid of access with the ridiculous lack of critical rugby journalism in NZ. It's a tragedy and must be contributing to the issue.
Further, we don't seem to have any rugby journalists who actually can (and/or will) analyse the game.
We don't even seem to have any journalists who are prepared to call on those (ex)players or coaches who could do it.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
For all the "Foster bashing", it isn't coming from a very passive media who seem quite subdued. The Breakdown was deliberately obtuse and shallow (Access to AB camp on their mind?). It seems the obvious flaws in the ABs are being analyzed by fans, blogs, and overseas media.
100%
The NZRU must have journalists afraid of access with the ridiculous lack of critical rugby journalism in NZ. It's a tragedy and must be contributing to the issue.
Further, we don't seem to have any rugby journalists who actually can (and/or will) analyse the game.
We don't even seem to have any journalists who are prepared to call on those (ex)players or coaches who could do it.
The access issue is real; you can see the likes of Hinton and Knowler itching to tee-off but holding back enough to remain in good favour. There are journalists/opinion writers who challenge NZR, coaches and individual players (Rattue, Reason) but they tend to get rounded on and dismissed as clickbait merchants by the rugby public, and get disbarred by NZR.
In terms of true rugby analysis, I can't help think this is one consequence of what Dylan Cleaver described as the 'hollowing out' of NZ sports journalism, simply because no money.
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@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Don't disagree but after a pretty lackluster NH tour there were plenty on here calling time on his career. At the very least he needs to be managed carefully.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Don't disagree but after a pretty lackluster NH tour there were plenty on here calling time on his career. At the very least he needs to be managed carefully.
@Marty said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@junior I would argue Sam Whitelock has had a bit to do with the success we’ve had during those winning times.
Don't disagree but after a pretty lackluster NH tour there were plenty on here calling time on his career. At the very least he needs to be managed carefully.
That just goes to show they don't know as much as they think they do.
Whitelock is a key cog in that tight five going forward.
I agree giving him some down time is crucial. -
didnt click in it, cos Reason, but you do wonder if the coaches are utilising these ex players and/or coaches where they can, am sure the likes of DC, Richie, Smith (of the Ben variety) et al would be keen to give thier insights, not saying they need to use what they say, but getting other perspectives is key, but I guess you first need to admit you need help and ask for it!
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didnt click in it, cos Reason, but you do wonder if the coaches are utilising these ex players and/or coaches where they can, am sure the likes of DC, Richie, Smith (of the Ben variety) et al would be keen to give thier insights, not saying they need to use what they say, but getting other perspectives is key, but I guess you first need to admit you need help and ask for it!
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
didnt click in it, cos Reason, but you do wonder if the coaches are utilising these ex players and/or coaches where they can, am sure the likes of DC, Richie, Smith (of the Ben variety) et al would be keen to give thier insights, not saying they need to use what they say, but getting other perspectives is key, but I guess you first need to admit you need help and ask for it!
He’s no Rattue but he’s an ok writer, he made some good points.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
didnt click in it, cos Reason, but you do wonder if the coaches are utilising these ex players and/or coaches where they can, am sure the likes of DC, Richie, Smith (of the Ben variety) et al would be keen to give thier insights, not saying they need to use what they say, but getting other perspectives is key, but I guess you first need to admit you need help and ask for it!
He’s no Rattue but he’s an ok writer, he made some good points.
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Finally the drums are starting to beat.
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Someone has already updated the Wikipedia page:
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@ARHS stopped clock and all...he and @MN5 's dad, Rattue have spouted the same vitriol for years (over a decade?) bet they are grinning ear to ear as they type out thier 'articles' with glee at the predicament the ABs find themselves in (TBF, most is of thier own doing) every now and then they do write some insightful pieces, but like most of thier ilk, they get lost amongst the click bait headlines.
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@ARHS stopped clock and all...he and @MN5 's dad, Rattue have spouted the same vitriol for years (over a decade?) bet they are grinning ear to ear as they type out thier 'articles' with glee at the predicament the ABs find themselves in (TBF, most is of thier own doing) every now and then they do write some insightful pieces, but like most of thier ilk, they get lost amongst the click bait headlines.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@ARHS stopped clock and all...he and @MN5 's dad, Rattue have spouted the same vitriol for years (over a decade?) bet they are grinning ear to ear as they type out thier 'articles' with glee at the predicament the ABs find themselves in (TBF, most is of thier own doing) every now and then they do write some insightful pieces, but like most of thier ilk, they get lost amongst the click bait headlines.
Is Rattue still writing ?
Every time there is a NZ Herald article I have to pay for it so I don’t know.
