Foster, Robertson etc
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@Tim said in Foster must go:
@Bovidae Are they allowed to?
Ratpoo used to hold a massive grudge against rugby in NZ because he claimed he was never allowed to ask hard questions or was snubbed because he did. Don't know how true that was.
The biggest problem is that NZ is a small place and shows like the Breakdown have to be 'nice' in case they lose access to players and coaches. Sky have to 'win' the rights to show the game from NZR so have to toe the line. -
@KiwiMurph Hinton and his fellow journos are part of the problem as they aren't prepared to ask any hard questions of NZR, Foster and co.
@Bovidae said in Foster must go:
@KiwiMurph Hinton and his fellow journos are part of the problem as they aren't prepared to ask any hard questions of NZR, Foster and co.
Agreed - I think it's telling that even Hinton is calling for Foster to be canned.
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@Bovidae said in Foster must go:
@KiwiMurph Hinton and his fellow journos are part of the problem as they aren't prepared to ask any hard questions of NZR, Foster and co.
Agreed - I think it's telling that even Hinton is calling for Foster to be canned.
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
@Bovidae said in Foster must go:
@KiwiMurph Hinton and his fellow journos are part of the problem as they aren't prepared to ask any hard questions of NZR, Foster and co.
Agreed - I think it's telling that even Hinton is calling for Foster to be canned.
Maybe he knows something…and therefore is not really going out on a limb…
(It’s the hope that gets you)
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@Crucial NZR own shares in Sky don't they? The Breakdown is released on the ABs YouTube channel.
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
@Crucial NZR own shares in Sky don't they? The Breakdown is released on the ABs YouTube channel.
Goldie is always very measured in his criticism.
Unlikely we'll ever get anything in the middle ground between Slight pandering and click bait though. This has been evident for a long time. Remember the fluffing that Stuff used to give Hammett?We need the old school respected journos like DJ Cameron back.
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@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
Did I read correctly that Foster is on $1,000,000 per year salary? No wonder he is reluctant to go.
Exactly. It's not like he has any prospect of getting anything like that anywhere else. Maybe KFC will give him a role somewhere. He has after all single-handedly kept several of their franchises afloat.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster must go:
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
Did I read correctly that Foster is on $1,000,000 per year salary? No wonder he is reluctant to go.
Exactly. It's not like he has any prospect of getting anything like that anywhere else. Maybe KFC will give him a role somewhere. He has after all single-handedly kept several of their franchises afloat.
Grizz might be getting worried!
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
@Crucial NZR own shares in Sky don't they? The Breakdown is released on the ABs YouTube channel.
Goldie is always very measured in his criticism.
Unlikely we'll ever get anything in the middle ground between Slight pandering and click bait though. This has been evident for a long time. Remember the fluffing that Stuff used to give Hammett?We need the old school respected journos like DJ Cameron back.
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
@Crucial NZR own shares in Sky don't they? The Breakdown is released on the ABs YouTube channel.
Goldie is always very measured in his criticism.
Unlikely we'll ever get anything in the middle ground between Slight pandering and click bait though. This has been evident for a long time. Remember the fluffing that Stuff used to give Hammett?We need the old school respected journos like DJ Cameron back.
TP McLean will be sitting up there in heaven (or down there in the warmer climate) wishing he was around now to go hard at Fozzie and NZR.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster must go:
People getting triggered by the fat jokes is absolutely pathetic.
Who is triggered? I said the jokes were tired. And they were.
Maybe someone is triggered by the thought of someone being triggered?
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster must go:
People getting triggered by the fat jokes is absolutely pathetic.
Who is triggered? I said the jokes were tired. And they were.
Maybe someone is triggered by the thought of someone being triggered?
It's not as funny as the people that keep making those jokes think it is.
People using the term triggered unironically are what is pathetic.
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@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I’d accept keeping the bledisloe and not losing to wales or Scotland on end of year tour. Oh and going 2-0 vs Argentina. Can’t expect a guy to come in at short notice and not potentially lose to SA in SA.
Not good enough. We'd be treading water or going backwards compared to Foster with no guarantee things are really on the up.
Enough mediocrity - put success measures in place and have an action plan if they aren't met.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I’d accept keeping the bledisloe and not losing to wales or Scotland on end of year tour. Oh and going 2-0 vs Argentina. Can’t expect a guy to come in at short notice and not potentially lose to SA in SA.
Not good enough. We'd be treading water or going backwards compared to Foster with no guarantee things are really on the up.
Enough mediocrity - put success measures in place and have an action plan if they aren't met.
Whatever we do, we run the risk of tings getting worse. But that in itself is not a reason to do nothing to try to turn around the currently dire situation. We will all have to accept that with a change in coach, things may just get worse before they get better. We may also get a dead cat bounce where things get immediately worse, but then revert to what we currently have. All this will tell us is that things are in fact worse than perhaps we had realised and that things would have gotten worse under Foster.
I would rather we accept these risks and be proactive about trying to avoid them by appointing a new coach with a proven track record of success - whether that's Razor, Schmidt or someone else like Gatland - than continue on with the current team of coaches who have little to no success in their own right.
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Sir John Kirwan: All Blacks coach Ian Foster 'thrown under the bus' by NZ Rugby
SJK, great player, love what you are doing with depression, but seriously pal, this is a perforamnce based industry!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I’d accept keeping the bledisloe and not losing to wales or Scotland on end of year tour. Oh and going 2-0 vs Argentina. Can’t expect a guy to come in at short notice and not potentially lose to SA in SA.
Not good enough. We'd be treading water or going backwards compared to Foster with no guarantee things are really on the up.
Enough mediocrity - put success measures in place and have an action plan if they aren't met.
Whatever we do, we run the risk of tings getting worse. But that in itself is not a reason to do nothing to try to turn around the currently dire situation. We will all have to accept that with a change in coach, things may just get worse before they get better. We may also get a dead cat bounce where things get immediately worse, but then revert to what we currently have. All this will tell us is that things are in fact worse than perhaps we had realised and that things would have gotten worse under Foster.
I would rather we accept these risks and be proactive about trying to avoid them by appointing a new coach with a proven track record of success - whether that's Razor, Schmidt or someone else like Gatland - than continue on with the current team of coaches who have little to no success in their own right.
@junior said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I’d accept keeping the bledisloe and not losing to wales or Scotland on end of year tour. Oh and going 2-0 vs Argentina. Can’t expect a guy to come in at short notice and not potentially lose to SA in SA.
Not good enough. We'd be treading water or going backwards compared to Foster with no guarantee things are really on the up.
Enough mediocrity - put success measures in place and have an action plan if they aren't met.
Whatever we do, we run the risk of tings getting worse. But that in itself is not a reason to do nothing to try to turn around the currently dire situation. We will all have to accept that with a change in coach, things may just get worse before they get better. We may also get a dead cat bounce where things get immediately worse, but then revert to what we currently have. All this will tell us is that things are in fact worse than perhaps we had realised and that things would have gotten worse under Foster.
I would rather we accept these risks and be proactive about trying to avoid them by appointing a new coach with a proven track record of success - whether that's Razor, Schmidt or someone else like Gatland - than continue on with the current team of coaches who have little to no success in their own right.
No need to start speaking Irish.
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Sir John Kirwan: All Blacks coach Ian Foster 'thrown under the bus' by NZ Rugby
SJK, great player, love what you are doing with depression, but seriously pal, this is a perforamnce based industry!
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Good point JK; this isn't the epitome of national sporting excellence and by association identity for millions of people crafted well over a century, this is just an opportunity for a bloke to do his best and we should all encourage him, especially if it all gets a bit too hard to cope sometimes. What's missing is the participation ribbons for doing our best against the Irish. Who knew they'd be so good?
Fucking idiot.
If Robinson said we have faith after those two performances in the second and third test, he'd be looking for a job too.
If we care about mental health, what about mine being subjected to that?
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“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Good point JK; this isn't the epitome of national sporting excellence and by association identity for millions of people crafted well over a century, this is just an opportunity for a bloke to do his best and we should all encourage him, especially if it all gets a bit too hard to cope sometimes. What's missing is the participation ribbons for doing our best against the Irish. Who knew they'd be so good?
Fucking idiot.
If Robinson said we have faith after those two performances in the second and third test, he'd be looking for a job too.
If we care about mental health, what about mine being subjected to that?
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps? -
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
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Nobody seemed to give a shit about John Hart's mental health after 98 and his record was much better than Foster (who is really fat btw). Same with the insane hate Steven Donald received for one kick.
Give me a million bucks a year and I'll happily cry myself to sleep at night in my bed of money.
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@junior said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@PecoTrain said in Foster must go:
If we have little to no confidence in Foster developing the team, why leave him in-place to leave a mess for his successor when the chances of RWC are largely independent of the current coaching team? At worst we start to move forward again...
Genuine question. If Foster is replaced - and I think he should be - and the new coach drops more than one game in the TRC and/or loses a game on the EOYT (more than possible the way England, Wales & Scotland are playing at the moment), he will have done no better, or possibly worse, than Foster in 2021.
What do we do then? Do we sack the new coach and look for another to turn things around in time for Sept 2023?
Obviously not. The new coach’s mandate should be to come in and arrest the current slide and try get this current crop of players to the stage where they don’t embarrass themselves at the World Cup next year. Whoever comes in will have I imagine quite a bit of goodwill for volunteering to take on the difficult task of turning around this shitshow, and probably because he will have shown some coaching ability in the past so people will immediately believe he can actually turn things around (and hopefully so do the players). The damage to this team may be irreparable and impossible to turn around, but we may as well try, right?
So if it turns out the new bloke's not a great success and doesn't do any better than Foster? What do we do then?
Don't think it's viable to just accept that level of performance, keep the new bloke in place, blame it all on Foster and effectively shrug our shoulders and say "at least we tried". Need a bit more planning than that surely.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@junior said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@PecoTrain said in Foster must go:
If we have little to no confidence in Foster developing the team, why leave him in-place to leave a mess for his successor when the chances of RWC are largely independent of the current coaching team? At worst we start to move forward again...
Genuine question. If Foster is replaced - and I think he should be - and the new coach drops more than one game in the TRC and/or loses a game on the EOYT (more than possible the way England, Wales & Scotland are playing at the moment), he will have done no better, or possibly worse, than Foster in 2021.
What do we do then? Do we sack the new coach and look for another to turn things around in time for Sept 2023?
Obviously not. The new coach’s mandate should be to come in and arrest the current slide and try get this current crop of players to the stage where they don’t embarrass themselves at the World Cup next year. Whoever comes in will have I imagine quite a bit of goodwill for volunteering to take on the difficult task of turning around this shitshow, and probably because he will have shown some coaching ability in the past so people will immediately believe he can actually turn things around (and hopefully so do the players). The damage to this team may be irreparable and impossible to turn around, but we may as well try, right?
> So if it turns out the new bloke's not a great success and doesn't do any better than Foster? What do we do then?
Don't think it's viable to just accept that level of performance, keep the new bloke in place, blame it all on Foster and effectively shrug our shoulders and say "at least we tried". Need a bit more planning than that surely.
Contract only to RWC. Only 13 + months of pain.
One plus to a coach replacement is teams in 2023 will be totally surprised.
And anyway right now the problem is more: what if the new coach is as ineffective as Foster?
IMHO there is only one NZ coach at that level not called Mark and he is the current AB coach (and his assistants). -
Nobody seemed to give a shit about John Hart's mental health after 98 and his record was much better than Foster (who is really fat btw). Same with the insane hate Steven Donald received for one kick.
Give me a million bucks a year and I'll happily cry myself to sleep at night in my bed of money.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster must go:
Nobody seemed to give a shit about John Hart's mental health after 98 and his record was much better than Foster (who is really fat btw). Same with the insane hate Steven Donald received for one kick.
Give me a million bucks a year and I'll happily cry myself to sleep at night in my bed of money.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
There will be MASSIVE pressure on Foster as there should be and you’re right. He could have said no to the job and he’s been paid a huge salary. On face value it is very easy to put the boot in.
……but the more empathetic side of me does feel for him a bit and how stressed, unhappy and unhealthy he looks when he fronts the media.
He just looks utterly resigned to a shit situation and bereft of ideas of how to sort it.
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@antipodean said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
There will be MASSIVE pressure on Foster as there should be and you’re right. He could have said no to the job and he’s been paid a huge salary. On face value it is very easy to put the boot in.
……but the more empathetic side of me does feel for him a bit and how stressed, unhappy and unhealthy he looks when he fronts the media.
He just looks utterly resigned to a shit situation and bereft of ideas of how to sort it.
@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
There will be MASSIVE pressure on Foster as there should be and you’re right. He could have said no to the job and he’s been paid a huge salary. On face value it is very easy to put the boot in.
……but the more empathetic side of me does feel for him a bit and how stressed, unhappy and unhealthy he looks when he fronts the media.
He just looks utterly resigned to a shit situation and bereft of ideas of how to sort it.
Yeah I don't want to give the wrong impression here. I don't dislike the guy - he comes across as a really nice bloke. It is my fervent wish that he's so successful that other nations give up rugby and go play table tennis instead. But it's clear to me his assistants aren't up to requirement, and he's the leader. So while you can delegate authority, you can't delegate responsibility.
These results aren't acceptable.
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@antipodean said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
There will be MASSIVE pressure on Foster as there should be and you’re right. He could have said no to the job and he’s been paid a huge salary. On face value it is very easy to put the boot in.
……but the more empathetic side of me does feel for him a bit and how stressed, unhappy and unhealthy he looks when he fronts the media.
He just looks utterly resigned to a shit situation and bereft of ideas of how to sort it.
@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
There will be MASSIVE pressure on Foster as there should be and you’re right. He could have said no to the job and he’s been paid a huge salary. On face value it is very easy to put the boot in.
……but the more empathetic side of me does feel for him a bit and how stressed, unhappy and unhealthy he looks when he fronts the media.
He just looks utterly resigned to a shit situation and bereft of ideas of how to sort it.
To be fair he could do something about the unhealthy part....
But yeah it's not like he's deliberately being shit and the pressure on him is enormous. But he's the AB coach and it comes with the territory. I'll bet he had exactly the same expectations when he was just a mere fan. And again, a million bucks a year will no doubt dull some of that pain.
