Foster, Robertson etc
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@Bovidae said in Foster must go:
One other thing mentioned by Newshub was that Foster is well liked and respected by the players. Perhaps he has some credit in the bank as an assistant coach that won a RWC. This wasn't true of some of the current assistant coaches.
But in the end, the head coach is responsible for the overall plan and vision so if the assistant coaches aren't up to it they need to be replaced. AB coaches don't have a history of going all-Eddie Jones though.
That was one of the key 'pros' to his appointment wasn't it. The players said that he was very good and that they respected him.
It just seems that this next step up is a step too far and what works for him as an assistant doesn't as a head@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Bovidae said in Foster must go:
One other thing mentioned by Newshub was that Foster is well liked and respected by the players. Perhaps he has some credit in the bank as an assistant coach that won a RWC. This wasn't true of some of the current assistant coaches.
But in the end, the head coach is responsible for the overall plan and vision so if the assistant coaches aren't up to it they need to be replaced. AB coaches don't have a history of going all-Eddie Jones though.
That was one of the key 'pros' to his appointment wasn't it. The players said that he was very good and that they respected him.
It just seems that this next step up is a step too far and what works for him as an assistant doesn't as a headClassic case of an exceptional No. 2 & key to overall success, who isn't a No.1 perhaps.
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What wrong with our ex-coaches, ex-players?
They just know more than us??? too conservative????? conflicts of interest????? or just plain soft in the head???????
Laurie Mains - “I have a great deal of sympathy for Ian Foster, he’s been a long-term servant to rugby and I’m sure he’s always done his best, and I’m not about to join the crucifixion party.’’
Grizz - “Changing coaches now probably isn’t going to happen at this stage,’’ he said. “If there’s a new coach in does he want to pick new players? All that’s going to do is create more uncertainty [for the players].”
Kirkpatrick - Kirkpatrick agreed a coaching change now could be disruptive, but he would like to see Schmidt’s talents fully utilised.
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What wrong with our ex-coaches, ex-players?
They just know more than us??? too conservative????? conflicts of interest????? or just plain soft in the head???????
Laurie Mains - “I have a great deal of sympathy for Ian Foster, he’s been a long-term servant to rugby and I’m sure he’s always done his best, and I’m not about to join the crucifixion party.’’
Grizz - “Changing coaches now probably isn’t going to happen at this stage,’’ he said. “If there’s a new coach in does he want to pick new players? All that’s going to do is create more uncertainty [for the players].”
Kirkpatrick - Kirkpatrick agreed a coaching change now could be disruptive, but he would like to see Schmidt’s talents fully utilised.
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@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and Aki@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and AkiWe've done the depth and talent issues to death since 2015. No one believes that we continue to have the best 1st and 2nd XVs in World Rugby and no one has believed that in a very long time. This is as far as I'm concerned a separate and not super relevant issue to what's being discussed here. In fact, the lack of depth and talent is all the more reason why the coaching issue is so important - when you don't have the natural talent across the park and country to dominate by that alone, your coaching needs to be top notch so that you can squeeze as much juice as possible out of the lemons you have at your disposal.
Fozzie has had a fair squeeze and now it's someone else's turn. No matter what you may think about the depth and quality of our lemons, there's clearly more juice in there than Fozzie has gotten out of them.
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@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and AkiWe've done the depth and talent issues to death since 2015. No one believes that we continue to have the best 1st and 2nd XVs in World Rugby and no one has believed that in a very long time. This is as far as I'm concerned a separate and not super relevant issue to what's being discussed here. In fact, the lack of depth and talent is all the more reason why the coaching issue is so important - when you don't have the natural talent across the park and country to dominate by that alone, your coaching needs to be top notch so that you can squeeze as much juice as possible out of the lemons you have at your disposal.
Fozzie has had a fair squeeze and now it's someone else's turn. No matter what you may think about the depth and quality of our lemons, there's clearly more juice in there than Fozzie has gotten out of them.
Jaspers said the All Blacks coach "should have fronted and delivered the mea culpa, acknowledged the hurt, talked about letting down the jersey and the fans, the lessons to be learned, we've been through dark days before etc and **his determination to right the ship**". "Fighting talk. Fronting up. That's what fans want to see and hear.ok so it isn't the Titanic then (which was bloody heavy). Glad to know fans want to hear Foster and co. come out fighting.
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geeeeet fuuuuucked!!!
(i am hugely in favour of the new focus on mental health, especially for men, but...)
that is a fucking cop out of the absolute highest order. I am sick to death of "mental health" being the go-to excuse for behaviour, especially in sport. Get caught with a bag of coke? mental health. Get caught acting like a drunken idiot? mental health.
Doing a substandard job but want to avoid scrutiny for it? mental health.
It demeans, and almost makes a mockery of a serious discussion.
And, as an aside, if you have journalism students Jo, i hope you aren't teaching proof reading. Loose and Lose are two different words.
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
geeeeet fuuuuucked!!!
(i am hugely in favour of the new focus on mental health, especially for men, but...)
that is a fucking cop out of the absolute highest order. I am sick to death of "mental health" being the go-to excuse for behaviour, especially in sport. Get caught with a bag of coke? mental health. Get caught acting like a drunken idiot? mental health.
Doing a substandard job but want to avoid scrutiny for it? mental health.
It demeans, and almost makes a mockery of a serious discussion.
And, as an aside, if you have journalism students Jo, i hope you aren't teaching proof reading. Loose and Lose are two different words.
She confuses "lose" for "loose" twice. I'd posit it's not a typo or a proof reading issue, she just doesn't know the difference. Brilliant.
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What wrong with our ex-coaches, ex-players?
They just know more than us??? too conservative????? conflicts of interest????? or just plain soft in the head???????
Laurie Mains - “I have a great deal of sympathy for Ian Foster, he’s been a long-term servant to rugby and I’m sure he’s always done his best, and I’m not about to join the crucifixion party.’’
Grizz - “Changing coaches now probably isn’t going to happen at this stage,’’ he said. “If there’s a new coach in does he want to pick new players? All that’s going to do is create more uncertainty [for the players].”
Kirkpatrick - Kirkpatrick agreed a coaching change now could be disruptive, but he would like to see Schmidt’s talents fully utilised.
@Frank said in Foster must go:
What wrong with our ex-coaches, ex-players?
They just know more than us??? too conservative????? conflicts of interest????? or just plain soft in the head???????
Laurie Mains - “I have a great deal of sympathy for Ian Foster, he’s been a long-term servant to rugby and I’m sure he’s always done his best, and I’m not about to join the crucifixion party.’’
Grizz - “Changing coaches now probably isn’t going to happen at this stage,’’ he said. “If there’s a new coach in does he want to pick new players? All that’s going to do is create more uncertainty [for the players].”
Kirkpatrick - Kirkpatrick agreed a coaching change now could be disruptive, but he would like to see Schmidt’s talents fully utilised.
Wyllie, who coached the All Blacks from 1988 to 1991, believes replacing Ian Foster as head coach at this stage could be potentially **destabilising** with the opening Rugby Championship tests looming in South Africa in early August.Doesn't there need to be something stable to destabilise?
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Jaspers said the All Blacks coach "should have fronted and delivered the mea culpa, acknowledged the hurt, talked about letting down the jersey and the fans, the lessons to be learned, we've been through dark days before etc and **his determination to right the ship**". "Fighting talk. Fronting up. That's what fans want to see and hear.ok so it isn't the Titanic then (which was bloody heavy). Glad to know fans want to hear Foster and co. come out fighting.
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go:
**Jaspers said the All Blacks coach "should have fronted and delivered the mea culpa, acknowledged the hurt, talked about letting down the jersey and the fans, the lessons to be learned, we've been through dark days before etc and **his determination to right the ship****". "Fighting talk. Fronting up. That's what fans want to see and hear.ok so it isn't the Titanic then (which was bloody heavy). Glad to know fans want to hear Foster and co. come out fighting.
I would also like to hear about their learnings too, for good measure
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I am of the view that destabilisation is exactly what this team needs. Something to shock it into life.
@Damo said in Foster must go:
I am of the view that destabilisation is exactly what this team needs. Something to shock it into life.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go:
**Jaspers said the All Blacks coach "should have fronted and delivered the mea culpa, acknowledged the hurt, talked about letting down the jersey and the fans, the lessons to be learned, we've been through dark days before etc and **his determination to right the ship****". "Fighting talk. Fronting up. That's what fans want to see and hear.ok so it isn't the Titanic then (which was bloody heavy). Glad to know fans want to hear Foster and co. come out fighting.
I would also like to hear about their learnings too, for good measure
@junior said in Foster must go:
I would also like to hear about their learnings too, for good measure
I too would like to know the learnings going forward. They need to drill down how they are going to deliver for their key stakeholders. And what about those synergies they are developing?
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Absolute gold from Sumo
https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/19-07-2022/next-all-blacks-test-cancelled-due-to-mean-press
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Absolute gold from Sumo
https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/19-07-2022/next-all-blacks-test-cancelled-due-to-mean-press
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
Absolute gold from Sumo
https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/19-07-2022/next-all-blacks-test-cancelled-due-to-mean-press
Yeah the most pathetic shit 'metal health' my arse. Don't join up if you can't take the pressure
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Absolute gold from Sumo
https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/19-07-2022/next-all-blacks-test-cancelled-due-to-mean-press
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
Absolute gold from Sumo
https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/19-07-2022/next-all-blacks-test-cancelled-due-to-mean-press
Well played @sumostevenson
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
Absolute gold from Sumo
https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/19-07-2022/next-all-blacks-test-cancelled-due-to-mean-press
Yeah the most pathetic shit 'metal health' my arse. Don't join up if you can't take the pressure
@Machpants said in Foster must go:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
Absolute gold from Sumo
https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/19-07-2022/next-all-blacks-test-cancelled-due-to-mean-press
Yeah the most pathetic shit 'metal health' my arse. Don't join up if you can't take the pressure
metal health a typo or a reference to tin?
I loved this:
Not on Malcolm’s watch. Foster and Cane are going nowhere. On this point she seems adamant, and that conviction may yet keep the coach in his job. **He’s not important enough** to be told that his own press conference is shitcanned, but then again, what man really understands what’s good for him?A dig at Malcolm by being a dig at Foster ("He’s not important enough")and some sly girlsplaining "what man really understands what’s good for him?"
PS Stewart Mitchell played U21 in 1973, (so maybe around 70), really does have a LinkedIn profile and it really is a bit vague.
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What an utter trainwreck:
*"The decision to reappoint Foster's assistant coaches, two of whom reviewed poorly after successive defeats to finish last year's northern tour, and add additional resource in the form of skills consultant Andrew Strawbridge now also weighs heavily with a complete coaching change thought to come with a payout in excess of $2 million."
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@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and AkiThey played well because they benefitted from an actual game plan. Look at the Irish move we were debating last week where Aki got the ball just outside the dummy runners shoulder and was immediately put into acres of space. Can you imagine Rieko receiving ball like that on a regular basis? He'd carve teams to shreds.
Look, I get what you are saying, we've had some fucking all time great teams in recent history with GOATs across the park. Our current lot don't compare to that, but they are nowhere near as bad as what we are seeing right now. We should have been easily good enough to put Ireland away given they were at the end of a very long season. We should actually be good enough to win most of our games, but we have become easy beats to the other Tier 1 teams as they know all they have to do is play with a bit structure and we'll end up making a host of errors trying to pull shit out of the bag.
@No-Quarter said in Foster must go:
They played well because they benefitted from an actual game plan. Look at the Irish move we were debating last week where Aki got the ball just outside the dummy runners shoulder and was immediately put into acres of space. Can you imagine Rieko receiving ball like that on a regular basis? He'd carve teams to shreds.
No, but I can imagine Ma'a & Conrad having a word to each other along the lines of "that was a cool move, let's do x to stop it happening again. And I'll have a word with Beaden to throw the next pass outside my shoulder when they next drift in and I'll put you in space"
There's a lack on on-field thinking, do you think?
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What an utter trainwreck:
*"The decision to reappoint Foster's assistant coaches, two of whom reviewed poorly after successive defeats to finish last year's northern tour, and add additional resource in the form of skills consultant Andrew Strawbridge now also weighs heavily with a complete coaching change thought to come with a payout in excess of $2 million."
@kiwi_expat seems that headline has changed when you click the link. What's the request?
