Foster, Robertson etc
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@Hooroo said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Hooroo cool. You bothered to come here to post that? Huh, maybe you're more invested than you make out...
No, why? It’s an Internet forum and I have it on my phone. I check it every now and then.
Yeah nah sure, just saying it's a bit weird to post that you don't care. There's a wine thread I don't care about, I don't feel the need to post there about how I don't care.
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Hooroo said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Hooroo cool. You bothered to come here to post that? Huh, maybe you're more invested than you make out...
No, why? It’s an Internet forum and I have it on my phone. I check it every now and then.
Yeah nah sure, just saying it's a bit weird to post that you don't care. There's a wine thread I don't care about, I don't feel the need to post there about how I don't care.
You’ll prolly find it was just an addition to my post.
It really was no trouble to post that. There’s no effort and my thumbs didn’t get tired
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@Hooroo all good mate. I am not into the whole banter or trolling, just keen to share and hear views of passionate AB's and NZ rugby followrs
@The-Docter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Hooroo all good mate. I am not into the whole banter or trolling, just keen to share and hear views of passionate AB's and NZ rugby followrs
Yeah. Neither here. I actively delete trolling posts.
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Brief bio on McLeod, since I googled it.
https://halosport.co.nz/project/scott-mcleod/
It doesn't say he's immortal.
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Brief bio on McLeod, since I googled it.
https://halosport.co.nz/project/scott-mcleod/
It doesn't say he's immortal.
That's a nauseating read. "Defence guru". :face_vomiting:
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
Well put. Brown is by far the most innovative attack guy we have. Not his fault that he hasn't had the top players to work with. I used to have high hopes for Jason O'Halloran as well.
At least these guys look to create pictures that the opposition haven't seen before which, in turn, creates opportunities for the instinctive skills to finish off. That's way better than the current one of hoping to be in the right 'shape' when the opposition makes a mistake. That one only works against teams ranked below us (a number that is getting less)@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I used to have high hopes for Jason O'Halloran as well.
yeah me too, he seems to have slipped off the radar, I see he has had a few assistant gigs since 2015 in Scotland and now in Japan.
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@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
It all points to the stupidity of the recruitment process, where you had to see who you could get in your gang, rather than appointing a Head Coach and then appointing the best available assistants.
No wonder Foster ended up with guys probably out of their depth.
NZ Rugby will have had to pay these guys out plenty and the buck for that stops with the people who couldn't see this was a foolish idea.
In a way, you really can "blame Deans" for this, because if he'd pointed out the stupidity of him trying to recruit before he was appointed, maybe NZR wouldn't have latched on to such a dumb idea.
plumtree was rated very highly. My view more as an assistant coach maybe like brown. He had had international experience too
Maybe the issue is higher up
@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
plumtree was rated very highly.
And with the benefit of hindsight we should perhaps start to question those who spruiked his abilities.
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@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
have to say im not actually observant/smart enough to tell you....when i played all i did was tackle the closest guy that wasn't wearing the same jersey as me
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
have to say im not actually observant/smart enough to tell you....when i played all i did was tackle the closest guy that wasn't wearing the same jersey as me
Sometimes they even had the ball!
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Holland was in Razor’s team which people are saying yuck. But the Canes attack, which he runs, is really innovative. It is all the rest that is the problem. I think he would have been fine under Razor as an assist, but can’t lead a team to save his life - seems quite common!
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Holland was in Razor’s team which people are saying yuck. But the Canes attack, which he runs, is really innovative. It is all the rest that is the problem. I think he would have been fine under Razor as an assist, but can’t lead a team to save his life - seems quite common!
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Holland was in Razor’s team which people are saying yuck. But the Canes attack, which he runs, is really innovative. It is all the rest that is the problem. I think he would have been fine under Razor as an assist, but can’t lead a team to save his life - seems quite common!
It seems to be a Head Coach it takes a special bred,A lot of very good Assistant coaches around.
Tony Brown an example great asst coach but it seems a shit HC.
Holland is seems the same. -
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
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@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
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@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
If wiki is accurate:
"He replaced Wayne Smith as defence coach for the All Blacks after their third Bledisloe test against Australia on 22nd of October 2017" -
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
he left us after the 2017 super season
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@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
When it all started going to shit - 2017 after the Professor left. There's a magnificent correlation since then...
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@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
when did he come on board?
When it all started going to shit - 2017 after the Professor left. There's a magnificent correlation since then...
@antipodean first loss to Ireland was 2016 so think the rot had already started
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On MacLeod, anyone want to work out how many tries per game we concede under his systems - especially vs tier 1 opposition?
Even in this Ireland series, my count is we scored 11 to their 8.
Maybe he's not as bad as painted?
@Chris-B our goal line defence is, at times very good, but it's in that 10m (thier side) to our 22 zone we seem to concede huge metres when they run it, and our scramble from these isn't very good.
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@antipodean first loss to Ireland was 2016 so think the rot had already started
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean first loss to Ireland was 2016 so think the rot had already started
That wasn't a defence issue. That was an arrogance issue.
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well, here's the numbers
looks like 63 tests
Average score conceded 17
allowed 25+ points 11 timesFor comparison, the 2011-2015 group played 81 times, average score conceded 15, allowed 25+ points 6 times.
what is a solid point is 6 of those 25+ scores against have come in the last 24 tests. And we lost 5 of them.
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well, here's the numbers
looks like 63 tests
Average score conceded 17
allowed 25+ points 11 timesFor comparison, the 2011-2015 group played 81 times, average score conceded 15, allowed 25+ points 6 times.
what is a solid point is 6 of those 25+ scores against have come in the last 24 tests. And we lost 5 of them.
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
well, here's the numbers
looks like 63 tests
Average score conceded 17
allowed 25+ points 11 timesFor comparison, the 2011-2015 group played 81 times, average score conceded 15, allowed 25+ points 6 times.
what is a solid point is 6 of those 25+ scores against have come in the last 24 tests. And we lost 5 of them.
not good when you see it laid out like that
my simple front rowers mind does wonder sometimes, the idea of a super fluid and free flowing and unstructured attack doesn't seem to sit naturally with a solid structured defence...i mean if anyone can be anywhere on attack then its hard to suddenly get back into structure if the ball is turned over
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@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
well, here's the numbers
looks like 63 tests
Average score conceded 17
allowed 25+ points 11 timesFor comparison, the 2011-2015 group played 81 times, average score conceded 15, allowed 25+ points 6 times.
what is a solid point is 6 of those 25+ scores against have come in the last 24 tests. And we lost 5 of them.
not good when you see it laid out like that
my simple front rowers mind does wonder sometimes, the idea of a super fluid and free flowing and unstructured attack doesn't seem to sit naturally with a solid structured defence...i mean if anyone can be anywhere on attack then its hard to suddenly get back into structure if the ball is turned over
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
well, here's the numbers
looks like 63 tests
Average score conceded 17
allowed 25+ points 11 timesFor comparison, the 2011-2015 group played 81 times, average score conceded 15, allowed 25+ points 6 times.
what is a solid point is 6 of those 25+ scores against have come in the last 24 tests. And we lost 5 of them.
not good when you see it laid out like that
my simple front rowers mind does wonder sometimes, the idea of a super fluid and free flowing and unstructured attack doesn't seem to sit naturally with a solid structured defence...i mean if anyone can be anywhere on attack then its hard to suddenly get back into structure if the ball is turned over
I imagine that is where the system changes to being about having somebody/anybody covering certain spots rather than expecting a certain player/position to be in a certain place.
This is why multiple phase attacks work well as you keep recycling (and hopefully going forward) changing the point of attack until you spot a mismatch such as two props covering 10 metres of width. Our attack currently is more concerned about not getting shut down by rush defence and finding a way to get that roll on whereas maybe we need to take a more basic approach with forwards not having to move far to secure a phase.
