Foster, Robertson etc
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@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but what do people think of Sam at 6 rather than 7?
Would a Cane/Paps/Ardie or Cane/Paps/Sotutu be a better balanced trio?
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
So .....would you pick Cane over the other players Barnes mentioned?
More importantly would you select ABs on a British scribes opinion?
@Dan54 Wasn't having a go at Cane. It is just that nobody was answering the question.
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@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but what do people think of Sam at 6 rather than 7?
Would a Cane/Paps/Ardie or Cane/Paps/Sotutu be a better balanced trio?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Would a Cane/Paps/Ardie or Cane/Paps/Sotutu be a better balanced trio?
That's still 5 out of 6 are 7s. Cane is a 7, Paps is a 7, Ardie is a 7. That's the problwm, we tried the first three together already, test 3, didn't go well. Cane is the third best 7 in the team, and now we are stuck with him starting 'cos he's captain
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@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
It is indisputable that the decision to replace Read with Savea as our regular eight has substantially lessened our effectiveness.
I suspect it's led to the pack trying to play around Ardie's strengths and weaknesses, unbalances our lineout, probably our ruck work, maybe effects our maul, and definitively our off the scrum punch.
If we want to sort our game plan, please move Savea to seven/bench and bring in an eight which allows a better pattern to be played.
Luatua would have been perfect, but that's water under the bridge. For now that's Sotutu, so for Christ's sake give him a run.
End of rant.
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@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
It is indisputable that the decision to replace Read with Savea as our regular eight has substantially lessened our effectiveness.
I suspect it's led to the pack trying to play around Ardie's strengths and weaknesses, unbalances our lineout, probably our ruck work, maybe effects our maul, and definitively our off the scrum punch.
If we want to sort our game plan, please move Savea to seven/bench and bring in an eight which allows a better pattern to be played.
Luatua would have been perfect, but that's water under the bridge. For now that's Sotutu, so for Christ's sake give him a run.
End of rant.
@pakman said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
It is indisputable that the decision to replace Read with Savea as our regular eight has substantially lessened our effectiveness.
I suspect it's led to the pack trying to play around Ardie's strengths and weaknesses, unbalances our lineout, probably our ruck work, maybe effects our maul, and definitively our off the scrum punch.
If we want to sort our game plan, please move Savea to seven/bench and bring in an eight which allows a better pattern to be played.
Luatua would have been perfect, but that's water under the bridge. For now that's Sotutu, so for Christ's sake give him a run.
End of rant.
The French had a specific ploy to take Ardie out:
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So whadda we think about Mounga throwing his full support behind Foster? Going as far as to declare that he’s the man.
This isn’t a player that is seemingly a favourite or owes his ongoing selection to Foster. He’d be close to first name on a team list from Razor.@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
So whadda we think about Mounga throwing his full support behind Foster? Going as far as to declare that he’s the man.
This isn’t a player that is seemingly a favourite or owes his ongoing selection to Foster. He’d be close to first name on a team list from Razor.LOL
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@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
For some reason we don't have our 7 playing the way they are used to the next level down where they have a roaming licence to hunt
there's a reason for that
We'd honestly solve a lot of our loose forward issues if we played Akira at 6 and Sotutu at 8. Put Cane, Ardie or Papalii between those two and we have a really well balanced trio.
(edit - added Ardie who should be starting at 7 or on the bench)
@No-Quarter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
For some reason we don't have our 7 playing the way they are used to the next level down where they have a roaming licence to hunt
there's a reason for that
We'd honestly solve a lot of our loose forward issues if we played Akira at 6 and Sotutu at 8. Put Cane, Ardie or Papalii between those two and we have a really well balanced trio.
(edit - added Ardie who should be starting at 7 or on the bench)
Sam, Frizzel and Hoskins, with Paps on bench, were pretty handy against Oz on Halloween 2020.
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@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but what do people think of Sam at 6 rather than 7?
Would a Cane/Paps/Ardie or Cane/Paps/Sotutu be a better balanced trio?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but what do people think of Sam at 6 rather than 7?
They like the 6 playing the wider channels and Sam is probably the least suited for that of all the backrowers in the team.
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@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@antipodean said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders Barnes has a distinguished career in making laughably idiotic pronouncements.
In amongst the dross from Barnes, there are some interesting nuggets:
- Would you pick Cane in front of any of the no.7 options NZ's main opponents are capable of fielding? Hooper, Kolisi, Van der Flier, Jelonch, Curry. Would you take any of them over Cane?
Possibly, but it depends on the type of defence and who you have around them.
- Is Cane the best no.7 NZ have available right now? Papalii and Savea are arguably better options in the here and now. This isn't a question to denigrate someone who has been a real servant to NZ rugby. McCaw was questioned several times over his career and always found an answer to shut up the naysayers.
It is arguable whether he's in the best form given how well Papali'i played in Super Rugby, but his impact in defence can't be denied.
- If the answer to 2 is No, the captain question is a redundant one. It would be a long time ago that NZ played someone at no.7 that was not the best the best in the country and did not measure up against the players available to other nations.
Well we're not fielding our best no.8, so there's that.
I'd say the broader problem is that our loose forwards are situated to be effective when we have the ball, but we don't play to that shape because we don't go forward with the tight five or our backs.
It is indisputable that the decision to replace Read with Savea as our regular eight has substantially lessened our effectiveness.
I suspect it's led to the pack trying to play around Ardie's strengths and weaknesses, unbalances our lineout, probably our ruck work, maybe effects our maul, and definitively our off the scrum punch.
If we want to sort our game plan, please move Savea to seven/bench and bring in an eight which allows a better pattern to be played.
Luatua would have been perfect, but that's water under the bridge. For now that's Sotutu, so for Christ's sake give him a run.
End of rant.
Balance. What a novel idea. Certainly novel in England anyway...
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So whadda we think about Mounga throwing his full support behind Foster? Going as far as to declare that he’s the man.
This isn’t a player that is seemingly a favourite or owes his ongoing selection to Foster. He’d be close to first name on a team list from Razor.@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
So whadda we think about Mounga throwing his full support behind Foster? Going as far as to declare that he’s the man.
This isn’t a player that is seemingly a favourite or owes his ongoing selection to Foster. He’d be close to first name on a team list from Razor.I am not surprised RM backs him - they've been working with Fozzie for a few years now and no none has said or event hinted that the environment is an unhappy one. To a man, they clearly all like Foster and they probably do all subscribe to the direction he wants the team to head given almost all of them - even a bench player like RM - are very much part of it.
But that doesn't mean that the players are correct that Foster should be in charge of what's supposed to be one of the highest performing teams in professional sport, or that the players even know what the best qualified person for that role would look like. I am very skeptical of the value of these players' comments about Foster, particularly given that one of the reasons of concern is that the environment and its leadership - as well as most of the players - have stayed relatively static for so long while the game and every other team in the world has changed and moved past us.
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@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs? -
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Not an option when you are doing a press conference and you’re asked a question.
If he says nothing, that is a bigger story.
Good old “full support” - it’s never made job security any better. “Full support” is never far behind “change needed to happen” and then the recipient of said change coming out with “spend more time with family”
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@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Well not being selected and the backs being a total shit-show probably does work in Mo'unga's favour.
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@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Reporter asks question about Foster - stony silence ensues.
Yeah, that'll be a non-story. -
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Reporter asks question about Foster - stony silence ensues.
Yeah, that'll be a non-story.Will anyone ask Richie if Razor or Foster is the better coach?
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Will anyone ask Richie if Razor or Foster is the better coach?
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Will anyone ask Richie if Razor or Foster is the better coach?
I remember when GOAT got asked the same question about Deans and GH...
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Will anyone ask Richie if Razor or Foster is the better coach?
I remember when GOAT got asked the same question about Deans and GH...
@canefan well I don't think they can ask Sam Cane (unless Razor coached him earlier?), Sam Whitelock maybe...
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Cane has been plagued by injuries. Great player in his prime but if there are better options at 7, he must go.
I say this as a fan of his as well.
@mofitzy_ said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Cane has been plagued by injuries. Great player in his prime but if there are better options at 7, he must go.
I say this as a fan of his as well.
He was 100% the right guy to take over the captaincy after 2019 and the failure of leadership of the other contenders at the RWC (SW especially). But after his injury-plagued 2021, they should have just handed over the reins to SW on a permanent basis and let SC get back to full form and fitness.
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Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
