Foster, Robertson etc
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
I was thinking along similar line the other day. It occurred to me that I am struggling to find one aspect of the game where I can confidently say the ABs are consistently world class in. The ABs can 'hold their own' in most areas for sure, but can anyone point to an aspect of the game where they would be considered the world's best?
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
I was thinking along similar line the other day. It occurred to me that I am struggling to find one aspect of the game where I can confidently say the ABs are consistently world class in. The ABs can 'hold their own' in most areas for sure, but can anyone point to an aspect of the game where they would be considered the world's best?
Broken field attack. Individual moments of magic.
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Does anyone have access to this article?
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/burned-by-beirne-is-the-all-blacks-engine-room-coming-off-the-rails/
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@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
I was thinking along similar line the other day. It occurred to me that I am struggling to find one aspect of the game where I can confidently say the ABs are consistently world class in. The ABs can 'hold their own' in most areas for sure, but can anyone point to an aspect of the game where they would be considered the world's best?
Broken field attack. Individual moments of magic.
@stodders said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
I was thinking along similar line the other day. It occurred to me that I am struggling to find one aspect of the game where I can confidently say the ABs are consistently world class in. The ABs can 'hold their own' in most areas for sure, but can anyone point to an aspect of the game where they would be considered the world's best?
Broken field attack. Individual moments of magic.
Doesn't have as much impact if you can't force the opposition into turnovers or mistakes
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
I was thinking along similar line the other day. It occurred to me that I am struggling to find one aspect of the game where I can confidently say the ABs are consistently world class in. The ABs can 'hold their own' in most areas for sure, but can anyone point to an aspect of the game where they would be considered the world's best?
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
I was thinking along similar line the other day. It occurred to me that I am struggling to find one aspect of the game where I can confidently say the ABs are consistently world class in. The ABs can 'hold their own' in most areas for sure, but can anyone point to an aspect of the game where they would be considered the world's best?
Dropping the ball,Leaky defence,Poor kicking game, poor chasing of kicks.Lack of clear workable game plan
They would be better than most teams at those things. -
Been an avid AB fan for years. Been so nervous at times with a close result, so proud of such a great team from a small country.
The current player talent available is pretty good.
This is the first time ever I don't care if we lose, in fact, it would be good if we did lose again.
Getting a couple of good assistants is probably going to prolong the never ending saga of mediocrity.
How can the national side not have the best management team that is available. Frustration.I honestly belief this team with a change in management could start firing consistently within a month
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@gt12 Wrestling would be a fantastic training tool for rugby players. It’s more than just strength. It’s balance and knowing how to use your strength.
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 Wrestling would be a fantastic training tool for rugby players. It’s more than just strength. It’s balance and knowing how to use your strength.
I'd be astounded if they don't already include wrestling type exercises in training already. Also at Super level.
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@gt12 Wrestling would be a fantastic training tool for rugby players. It’s more than just strength. It’s balance and knowing how to use your strength.
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 Wrestling would be a fantastic training tool for rugby players. It’s more than just strength. It’s balance and knowing how to use your strength.
I would say that it is already a big part of what the players are doing, as Jase appears to be a Cron acolyte (with his own additions). It seems like he takes a teaching/socratic approach to coaching in real time, which sounds promising to me.
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@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 Wrestling would be a fantastic training tool for rugby players. It’s more than just strength. It’s balance and knowing how to use your strength.
I would say that it is already a big part of what the players are doing, as Jase appears to be a Cron acolyte (with his own additions). It seems like he takes a teaching/socratic approach to coaching in real time, which sounds promising to me.
@gt12 I think Moody wrestled a little which may explain some of his propping abilities. Possible influence? Didn’t hear much on his teaching method. Cooking a steak but I like his response about why he wanted to coach the ABs. Bit of pride there.
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@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
As @ACT-Crusader said, and in fact you can take it back to late Hansen. The only change that we could add there is the two playmaker idea, which didn't work once DMac got injured as Beaudy dominated mounga
IIRC Shag wanted out at the end of 2017 but the NZRFU persuaded him to come back. In hindsight he was out of ideas by then
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Here's a genuine question: What differences to the ABs' play have been introduced in the two and a half years since Foster became head coach? He spoke after being appointed about all the fresh ideas he would bring. I'd love to hear from anyone who can identify the fresh things he's introduced to the ABs. I'm excluding the negatives: the decline in defence and attack, the gradual loss of skills, the kicking that is less and less contestable, the decline in the lineout and so on. Can anyone identify positive changes in the last couple of seasons?
As @ACT-Crusader said, and in fact you can take it back to late Hansen. The only change that we could add there is the two playmaker idea, which didn't work once DMac got injured as Beaudy dominated mounga
IIRC Shag wanted out at the end of 2017 but the NZRFU persuaded him to come back. In hindsight he was out of ideas by then
Really? That would reveal a real lack of confidence in NZ coaches by NZR.
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@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Reporter asks question about Foster - stony silence ensues.
Yeah, that'll be a non-story.Look I pretty neutral on who should coach, but some of you pretty keen on calling Richie a liar. And let's make it clear , he has in no way compared Razor and Foster, just said that he thinks Foster is the man for the job and I not sure he means as backs coach. Like it or not because Richie has made this statement that we may or may not agree with doesn't make him a liar ot it untrue, you know he could genuinely believe it, he says he finds working more direct with him taking over the backs as helping him. It was funny, Stu Barnes ripped into Cane (from England) and there seems no problem Cane is AB captain and some want change,, but an AB in camp actually involved with team makes a statement and he is branded a liar?
Actually to add, I was impressed with something Jason Ryan said that is exactly what I always try to say, are you in team Foster now or team Robertson? Reply neither I in team ABs. Best answer I have heard and sums up my exact feelings too.
Well put.
People pretty quick to say that RM is saying what his bosses want to hear but if you apply that same cynicism who's to say that Barnes wasn't asked to write a disruptive piece about NZ rugby to influence public opinion and support down here? That would be totally believable.@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Reporter asks question about Foster - stony silence ensues.
Yeah, that'll be a non-story.Look I pretty neutral on who should coach, but some of you pretty keen on calling Richie a liar. And let's make it clear , he has in no way compared Razor and Foster, just said that he thinks Foster is the man for the job and I not sure he means as backs coach. Like it or not because Richie has made this statement that we may or may not agree with doesn't make him a liar ot it untrue, you know he could genuinely believe it, he says he finds working more direct with him taking over the backs as helping him. It was funny, Stu Barnes ripped into Cane (from England) and there seems no problem Cane is AB captain and some want change,, but an AB in camp actually involved with team makes a statement and he is branded a liar?
Actually to add, I was impressed with something Jason Ryan said that is exactly what I always try to say, are you in team Foster now or team Robertson? Reply neither I in team ABs. Best answer I have heard and sums up my exact feelings too.
Well put.
People pretty quick to say that RM is saying what his bosses want to hear but if you apply that same cynicism who's to say that Barnes wasn't asked to write a disruptive piece about NZ rugby to influence public opinion and support down here? That would be totally believable.That is a fair point but we don't pay Barnes.
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@gt12 I think Moody wrestled a little which may explain some of his propping abilities. Possible influence? Didn’t hear much on his teaching method. Cooking a steak but I like his response about why he wanted to coach the ABs. Bit of pride there.
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 I think Moody wrestled a little which may explain some of his propping abilities. Possible influence? Didn’t hear much on his teaching method. Cooking a steak but I like his response about why he wanted to coach the ABs. Bit of pride there.
https://www.allblacks.com/to/playerprofiles/joe-moody/
Moody has represented New Zealand in age-grade rugby league and wrestling, earning New Zealand and Oceania championships. He won a wrestling bronze medal at the Junior Commonwealth Games. -
@gt12 I think Moody wrestled a little which may explain some of his propping abilities. Possible influence? Didn’t hear much on his teaching method. Cooking a steak but I like his response about why he wanted to coach the ABs. Bit of pride there.
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 I think Moody wrestled a little which may explain some of his propping abilities. Possible influence? Didn’t hear much on his teaching method. Cooking a steak but I like his response about why he wanted to coach the ABs. Bit of pride there.
Sam Tuitupou and Kees Meeuws were schoolboy wrestling champs when they were at Kelston. You could obviously see the influence wrestling had on their game.
Kelston were known for having a strong wrestling program and rugby players were often encouraged to take up wrestling.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Reporter asks question about Foster - stony silence ensues.
Yeah, that'll be a non-story.Look I pretty neutral on who should coach, but some of you pretty keen on calling Richie a liar. And let's make it clear , he has in no way compared Razor and Foster, just said that he thinks Foster is the man for the job and I not sure he means as backs coach. Like it or not because Richie has made this statement that we may or may not agree with doesn't make him a liar ot it untrue, you know he could genuinely believe it, he says he finds working more direct with him taking over the backs as helping him. It was funny, Stu Barnes ripped into Cane (from England) and there seems no problem Cane is AB captain and some want change,, but an AB in camp actually involved with team makes a statement and he is branded a liar?
Actually to add, I was impressed with something Jason Ryan said that is exactly what I always try to say, are you in team Foster now or team Robertson? Reply neither I in team ABs. Best answer I have heard and sums up my exact feelings too.
Well put.
People pretty quick to say that RM is saying what his bosses want to hear but if you apply that same cynicism who's to say that Barnes wasn't asked to write a disruptive piece about NZ rugby to influence public opinion and support down here? That would be totally believable.That is a fair point but we don't pay Barnes.
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Reporter asks question about Foster - stony silence ensues.
Yeah, that'll be a non-story.Look I pretty neutral on who should coach, but some of you pretty keen on calling Richie a liar. And let's make it clear , he has in no way compared Razor and Foster, just said that he thinks Foster is the man for the job and I not sure he means as backs coach. Like it or not because Richie has made this statement that we may or may not agree with doesn't make him a liar ot it untrue, you know he could genuinely believe it, he says he finds working more direct with him taking over the backs as helping him. It was funny, Stu Barnes ripped into Cane (from England) and there seems no problem Cane is AB captain and some want change,, but an AB in camp actually involved with team makes a statement and he is branded a liar?
Actually to add, I was impressed with something Jason Ryan said that is exactly what I always try to say, are you in team Foster now or team Robertson? Reply neither I in team ABs. Best answer I have heard and sums up my exact feelings too.
Well put.
People pretty quick to say that RM is saying what his bosses want to hear but if you apply that same cynicism who's to say that Barnes wasn't asked to write a disruptive piece about NZ rugby to influence public opinion and support down here? That would be totally believable.That is a fair point but we don't pay Barnes.
I don't think RM looks to you for his paycheck either.
As fans we are stakeholders and contribute toward the income streams used to pay players and coaches but the whole 'I pay your wages' argument is so Karen. -
Been an avid AB fan for years. Been so nervous at times with a close result, so proud of such a great team from a small country.
The current player talent available is pretty good.
This is the first time ever I don't care if we lose, in fact, it would be good if we did lose again.
Getting a couple of good assistants is probably going to prolong the never ending saga of mediocrity.
How can the national side not have the best management team that is available. Frustration.I honestly belief this team with a change in management could start firing consistently within a month
@BerniesCorner said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Been an avid AB fan for years. Been so nervous at times with a close result, so proud of such a great team from a small country.
The current player talent available is pretty good.
This is the first time ever I don't care if we lose, in fact, it would be good if we did lose again.
Getting a couple of good assistants is probably going to prolong the never ending saga of mediocrity.
How can the national side not have the best management team that is available. Frustration.I honestly belief this team with a change in management could start firing consistently within a month
This! Grabbing part of Razor's crew, getting in Joe, .....the ABs are going to get a few wins anyway with their talent. The fear is just adequately limping into the World Cup, getting knocked out early with the headlines of Razor taking over Wales in 2024 because he hasn't heard a word from NZR.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Reporter asks question about Foster - stony silence ensues.
Yeah, that'll be a non-story.Look I pretty neutral on who should coach, but some of you pretty keen on calling Richie a liar. And let's make it clear , he has in no way compared Razor and Foster, just said that he thinks Foster is the man for the job and I not sure he means as backs coach. Like it or not because Richie has made this statement that we may or may not agree with doesn't make him a liar ot it untrue, you know he could genuinely believe it, he says he finds working more direct with him taking over the backs as helping him. It was funny, Stu Barnes ripped into Cane (from England) and there seems no problem Cane is AB captain and some want change,, but an AB in camp actually involved with team makes a statement and he is branded a liar?
Actually to add, I was impressed with something Jason Ryan said that is exactly what I always try to say, are you in team Foster now or team Robertson? Reply neither I in team ABs. Best answer I have heard and sums up my exact feelings too.
Well put.
People pretty quick to say that RM is saying what his bosses want to hear but if you apply that same cynicism who's to say that Barnes wasn't asked to write a disruptive piece about NZ rugby to influence public opinion and support down here? That would be totally believable.That is a fair point but we don't pay Barnes.
I don't think RM looks to you for his paycheck either.
As fans we are stakeholders and contribute toward the income streams used to pay players and coaches but the whole 'I pay your wages' argument is so Karen.@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dan54 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Stargazer said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial What else can he do, if he doesn't want to commit career suicide?
He could say nothing? Have any other players been sacked for saying nothing.
You know prehaps he does like his coaching of the backs?Reporter asks question about Foster - stony silence ensues.
Yeah, that'll be a non-story.Look I pretty neutral on who should coach, but some of you pretty keen on calling Richie a liar. And let's make it clear , he has in no way compared Razor and Foster, just said that he thinks Foster is the man for the job and I not sure he means as backs coach. Like it or not because Richie has made this statement that we may or may not agree with doesn't make him a liar ot it untrue, you know he could genuinely believe it, he says he finds working more direct with him taking over the backs as helping him. It was funny, Stu Barnes ripped into Cane (from England) and there seems no problem Cane is AB captain and some want change,, but an AB in camp actually involved with team makes a statement and he is branded a liar?
Actually to add, I was impressed with something Jason Ryan said that is exactly what I always try to say, are you in team Foster now or team Robertson? Reply neither I in team ABs. Best answer I have heard and sums up my exact feelings too.
Well put.
People pretty quick to say that RM is saying what his bosses want to hear but if you apply that same cynicism who's to say that Barnes wasn't asked to write a disruptive piece about NZ rugby to influence public opinion and support down here? That would be totally believable.That is a fair point but we don't pay Barnes.
I don't think RM looks to you for his paycheck either.
As fans we are stakeholders and contribute toward the income streams used to pay players and coaches but the whole 'I pay your wages' argument is so Karen.That's not my point. Richie's job depends on being selected by Foster. Barnes' job is not affected by responses in NZ.
Classy 'Karen' character assassination attempt though. -
Since I normally don't listen to things like the mounga interview, I didn't realise exactly what he said, but it came up in another article, and I thought it was quite interesting. Mounga basically says foster is a good assistant coach
I think now he’ll have a more hands-on role with with the backs and with attack.
“I’ve had that taste early on in my All Blacks career (when Foster was an assistant) and I was able to gain so much knowledge and had ‘wow’ moments out in the field when he was coaching.
“It’s good to see that happen again the last couple of days.””
I think it has been conclusively proven that he's a fucking failure as head coach
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@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@gt12 I think Moody wrestled a little which may explain some of his propping abilities. Possible influence? Didn’t hear much on his teaching method. Cooking a steak but I like his response about why he wanted to coach the ABs. Bit of pride there.
Sam Tuitupou and Kees Meeuws were schoolboy wrestling champs when they were at Kelston. You could obviously see the influence wrestling had on their game.
Kelston were known for having a strong wrestling program and rugby players were often encouraged to take up wrestling.
@Dice I cant recall who it was (my grey memory says Craig Dowd or John Timu) did some Ballet training saying it was excellent for stability, strength and balance.
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@Dice I cant recall who it was (my grey memory says Craig Dowd or John Timu) did some Ballet training saying it was excellent for stability, strength and balance.
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Dice I cant recall who it was (my grey memory says Craig Dowd or John Timu) did some Ballet training saying it was excellent for stability, strength and balance.
As an aside, a number of NBA players back in the day did ballet training to help with footwork and balance.
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Leon will come in soon . Then razor as an assistant once he gets over his knee surgery and joe Schmidt will be head coach. Then Joe Schmidt will step away and Razor will be head coach.
