Foster, Robertson etc
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Foster is a problem and Razor would be a better coach. I am not sure why you are doubting this.
I admire your absolute certainty, I really do. He's a great coach at SR level, but think about where we'd be if Robertson repeats his U20 record with the AB's.
What record are you speaking of exactly?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_national_under-20_rugby_union_team#Coaches
His 93% win record across 2015/16
despite being only 40 & 41 at the time, and only having 2 years of head coaching experience at that stage, Robertson is 48 next month and has now had 11 years of experience as a head coach, in contrast Rennie was already 46 and was already a seasoned coach with 9 years of head coaching experience when he coached the NZ U20's, meanwhile Razor was just starting out & still holds the 2nd best record for long-term NZ U20 coaches, a record a lot better than Chris Boyd and others.Consider how much better of a coach Razor is now? Coaches typically peak around their late 40's until their mid 50's.
Robertson is a student of the game who's in dialogue with Eddie Jones, Craig Bellamy, Wayne Smith, O'Gara, etc..
He's always looking to improve & seeking alternative viewpoints from NH coaches, learnt & from the best and has genuinely honed his craft since starting off at Sumner. He's at least 3x times a better coach now than he was back in 2016.
2 u/20 World Cups won 1 out of 2 not the worst record.
And of course u/2os depends on the cycle of players you have year to year.Hardly sane for Victor Meldrew to judge Razor based solely on his results as a 40 year old with 2 years of professional coaching experience, fucking Lol...
Unaware I was judging him but pointing out his inexperience at Test level and the risk of failure a la 2016 .
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
I have not read these "absolutists" on here. Perhaps they have a name?
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Foster is a problem and Razor would be a better coach. I am not sure why you are doubting this.
I admire your absolute certainty, I really do. He's a great coach at SR level, but think about where we'd be if Robertson repeats his U20 record with the AB's.
What record are you speaking of exactly?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_national_under-20_rugby_union_team#Coaches
His 93% win record across 2015/16
despite being only 40 & 41 at the time, and only having 2 years of head coaching experience at that stage, Robertson is 48 next month and has now had 11 years of experience as a head coach, in contrast Rennie was already 46 and was already a seasoned coach with 9 years of head coaching experience when he coached the NZ U20's, meanwhile Razor was just starting out & still holds the 2nd best record for long-term NZ U20 coaches, a record a lot better than Chris Boyd and others.Consider how much better of a coach Razor is now? Coaches typically peak around their late 40's until their mid 50's.
Robertson is a student of the game who's in dialogue with Eddie Jones, Craig Bellamy, Wayne Smith, O'Gara, etc..
He's always looking to improve & seeking alternative viewpoints from NH coaches, learnt & from the best and has genuinely honed his craft since starting off at Sumner. He's at least 3x times a better coach now than he was back in 2016.
2 u/20 World Cups won 1 out of 2 not the worst record.
And of course u/2os depends on the cycle of players you have year to year.Hardly sane for Victor Meldrew to judge Razor based solely on his results as a 40 year old with 2 years of professional coaching experience, fucking Lol...
Unaware I was judging him but pointing out his inexperience at Test level and the risk of failure a la 2016 .
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
I don’t think anyone would expect Robertson to solve all the problems right away. Heck if he had the job right now he might lose a couple. But I’m confident there would be a change in direction and environment. Of course Rennie would have been good too and perhaps others. Foster was more of the same with Hansen but with less pedigree.
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But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
I don’t think anyone would expect Robertson to solve all the problems right away. Heck if he had the job right now he might lose a couple. But I’m confident there would be a change in direction and environment. Of course Rennie would have been good too and perhaps others. Foster was more of the same with Hansen but with less pedigree.
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
I don’t think anyone would expect Robertson to solve all the problems right away. Heck if he had the job right now he might lose a couple. But I’m confident there would be a change in direction and environment. Of course Rennie would have been good too and perhaps others. Foster was more of the same with Hansen but with less pedigree.
I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced. At the same time I've argued that the ABs problems might run a wee bit deeper than just one man and NZR set a clear timescale for any new coach to do better than Foster. Also, NZR should have a contingency plan in place to manage the risk if the new bloke - say Robertson with zero Test experience - doesn't improve things
Some people think the idea that there might be a risk from appointing a bloke with zero Test experience and managing that risk is insanity for some reason.
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@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA. Fudge them all you want. The stats aren't good. We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game. So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different? The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
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@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
I don’t think anyone would expect Robertson to solve all the problems right away. Heck if he had the job right now he might lose a couple. But I’m confident there would be a change in direction and environment. Of course Rennie would have been good too and perhaps others. Foster was more of the same with Hansen but with less pedigree.
I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced. At the same time I've argued that the ABs problems might run a wee bit deeper than just one man and NZR set a clear timescale for any new coach to do better than Foster. Also, NZR should have a contingency plan in place to manage the risk if the new bloke - say Robertson with zero Test experience - doesn't improve things
Some people think the idea that there might be a risk from appointing a bloke with zero Test experience and managing that risk is insanity for some reason.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
I don’t think anyone would expect Robertson to solve all the problems right away. Heck if he had the job right now he might lose a couple. But I’m confident there would be a change in direction and environment. Of course Rennie would have been good too and perhaps others. Foster was more of the same with Hansen but with less pedigree.
I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced. At the same time I've argued that the ABs problems might run a wee bit deeper than just one man and NZR set a clear timescale for any new coach to do better than Foster. Also, NZR should have a contingency plan in place to manage the risk if the new bloke - say Robertson with zero Test experience - doesn't improve things
Some people think the idea that there might be a risk from appointing a bloke with zero Test experience and managing that risk is insanity for some reason.
I don't think anybody thinks that. What everybody thinks is that those risks are moot due to the status quo being a steaming pile.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA. Fudge them all you want. The stats aren't good. We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game. So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different? The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
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@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
I don’t think anyone would expect Robertson to solve all the problems right away. Heck if he had the job right now he might lose a couple. But I’m confident there would be a change in direction and environment. Of course Rennie would have been good too and perhaps others. Foster was more of the same with Hansen but with less pedigree.
I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced. At the same time I've argued that the ABs problems might run a wee bit deeper than just one man and NZR set a clear timescale for any new coach to do better than Foster. Also, NZR should have a contingency plan in place to manage the risk if the new bloke - say Robertson with zero Test experience - doesn't improve things
Some people think the idea that there might be a risk from appointing a bloke with zero Test experience and managing that risk is insanity for some reason.
@Victor-Meldrew I agree on the other problems with the NZRFU and hopefully Silverlake can add pressure to them. The contingency plan would have been a good plan for Foster too although would this be a known thing? Would not be a vote of confidence though. Well we have this crowd for a little longer and perhaps the changes will help. Hope so.
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@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
You're saying it's not down to one man. What the phuck has Foster been doing in the last 6 years and 3 as head coach? Isn't it his primary role to get his players working cohesively as a unit? We've struggled because the won't settle on a side, not because the players ball skills are shit.
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@Victor-Meldrew I agree on the other problems with the NZRFU and hopefully Silverlake can add pressure to them. The contingency plan would have been a good plan for Foster too although would this be a known thing? Would not be a vote of confidence though. Well we have this crowd for a little longer and perhaps the changes will help. Hope so.
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew I agree on the other problems with the NZRFU and hopefully Silverlake can add pressure to them. The contingency plan would have been a good plan for Foster too although would this be a known thing? Would not be a vote of confidence though. Well we have this crowd for a little longer and perhaps the changes will help. Hope so.
Well, in my ideal world they are already looking at options if the RC & EOYT doesn't show any improvements - even if Foster had been sacked for Schmidt, Robertson or ANO - to mitigate an early RWC2023 exit and put a medium term plan in place.
Maybe things will become clearer in a week or two.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
You're saying it's not down to one man. What the phuck has Foster been doing in the last 6 years and 3 as head coach? Isn't it his primary role to get his players working cohesively as a unit? We've struggled because the won't settle on a side, not because the players ball skills are shit.
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
Weeeell, they have a 2-1 winning record v Wales with only their B team losing and have a 8-5 winning record in 2021 losing only to NZ, Aus, England and the Lions. Only minnow was Georgia. Not altogether shabby.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
You're saying it's not down to one man. What the phuck has Foster been doing in the last 6 years and 3 as head coach? Isn't it his primary role to get his players working cohesively as a unit? We've struggled because the won't settle on a side, not because the players ball skills are shit.
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
You're saying it's not down to one man. What the phuck has Foster been doing in the last 6 years and 3 as head coach? Isn't it his primary role to get his players working cohesively as a unit? We've struggled because the won't settle on a side, not because the players ball skills are shit.
I pretty much stopped reading when you said Sth Africa aren't up to snuff. Check their recent record & rugby history.
But for the record, no, I don't think all the problems in NZ rugby since 2015 are down to one man, Foster, and I don't believe NZ rugby players are more skilled than anyone else in the world.
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@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
You're saying it's not down to one man. What the phuck has Foster been doing in the last 6 years and 3 as head coach? Isn't it his primary role to get his players working cohesively as a unit? We've struggled because the won't settle on a side, not because the players ball skills are shit.
I pretty much stopped reading when you said Sth Africa aren't up to snuff. Check their recent record & rugby history.
But for the record, no, I don't think all the problems in NZ rugby since 2015 are down to one man, Foster, and I don't believe NZ rugby players are more skilled than anyone else in the world.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
You're saying it's not down to one man. What the phuck has Foster been doing in the last 6 years and 3 as head coach? Isn't it his primary role to get his players working cohesively as a unit? We've struggled because the won't settle on a side, not because the players ball skills are shit.
I pretty much stopped reading when you said Sth Africa aren't up to snuff. Check their recent record & rugby history.
But for the record, no, I don't think all the problems in NZ rugby since 2015 are down to one man, Foster, and I don't believe NZ rugby players are more skilled than anyone else in the world.
I stopped reading "I".
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
You're saying it's not down to one man. What the phuck has Foster been doing in the last 6 years and 3 as head coach? Isn't it his primary role to get his players working cohesively as a unit? We've struggled because the won't settle on a side, not because the players ball skills are shit.
I pretty much stopped reading when you said Sth Africa aren't up to snuff. Check their recent record & rugby history.
But for the record, no, I don't think all the problems in NZ rugby since 2015 are down to one man, Foster, and I don't believe NZ rugby players are more skilled than anyone else in the world.
I stopped reading "I".
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joan-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Why wait until then? Can they not look retroactively at the last 10 games and say, "we phucked up by reappointing Foz. 5 from 10 with 2 coming from the USA and Italy is not good enough and now a series loss is just unacceptable".
That ship has sailed.
Changes must be made. We need new direction, game plans and methodology otherwise the best we can hope for is a QF exit.
We all agree on that. But it's how you best do that which is the issue.
If shouldn't have sailed though.
It has though and that's the reality.
If they draw the series in Africa, Foz over the last 12 tests will still at best hold a 50% record. If they lose 0-2 it will be 42%. That ship should certainly still be in dock and ready take the current coaching group excluding Ryan to the underworld. When is enough, enough?
Selective use of statistics there. E.g. Foster's overall win ratio in 2021 from 15 Tests (losses to Ireland and France and a narrow loss to SA) was 80%.
I still believe we have the best ball players across the park in the world but we can't unify them as one collective force save for 15-20 mins.
No we don't and haven't had for some time. Look at the U20 results and the quality of players in France for example. We don't have all these wonder players you think we have. If we did, the Whitelock & Retallick replacements would be oven-ready.
There's no what ifs. Razor has to come in.
Magic solution which won't solve the deeper issues.
The reality is, Foz loses 2 in Africa he's out. Selective use of stats? We beat the Wobs, Fiji, the USA and Italy and scraped one against SA.
Bit selective. You missed out beating Wales (who beat SA in SA) and a last minute, 2 point loss to SA.
We do have the best ball players. If we didn't, as dominant as teams have been against us scorelines are still relatively close with a chance of being in the game.
Bollocks. We have struggled in loads of positions in the last few years. We've been looking for a quality 6 for 5 years, the Lock cupboard is bare and our midfield has been all over the place for even longer.
So your solution is to stay with Foster after the drivel we've seen and expect any different?
And yet one post up I take the time to write: "I agree, and I've argued that Foster should be replaced." .......
The fact is, with Foster in the coaching setup, this team has been on a downward trend since the end of 2016 and a likley QF exit next year.
Facile to say the AB's problems are all down to him.
Exactly. SA aren't up to snuff and we squeaked passed them.
You're saying it's not down to one man. What the phuck has Foster been doing in the last 6 years and 3 as head coach? Isn't it his primary role to get his players working cohesively as a unit? We've struggled because the won't settle on a side, not because the players ball skills are shit.
I pretty much stopped reading when you said Sth Africa aren't up to snuff. Check their recent record & rugby history.
But for the record, no, I don't think all the problems in NZ rugby since 2015 are down to one man, Foster, and I don't believe NZ rugby players are more skilled than anyone else in the world.
I stopped reading "I".
Some years ago at a guess.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Foster is a problem and Razor would be a better coach. I am not sure why you are doubting this.
I admire your absolute certainty, I really do. He's a great coach at SR level, but think about where we'd be if Robertson repeats his U20 record with the AB's.
What record are you speaking of exactly?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_national_under-20_rugby_union_team#Coaches
His 93% win record across 2015/16
despite being only 40 & 41 at the time, and only having 2 years of head coaching experience at that stage, Robertson is 48 next month and has now had 11 years of experience as a head coach, in contrast Rennie was already 46 and was already a seasoned coach with 9 years of head coaching experience when he coached the NZ U20's, meanwhile Razor was just starting out & still holds the 2nd best record for long-term NZ U20 coaches, a record a lot better than Chris Boyd and others.Consider how much better of a coach Razor is now? Coaches typically peak around their late 40's until their mid 50's.
Robertson is a student of the game who's in dialogue with Eddie Jones, Craig Bellamy, Wayne Smith, O'Gara, etc..
He's always looking to improve & seeking alternative viewpoints from NH coaches, learnt & from the best and has genuinely honed his craft since starting off at Sumner. He's at least 3x times a better coach now than he was back in 2016.
2 u/20 World Cups won 1 out of 2 not the worst record.
And of course u/2os depends on the cycle of players you have year to year.Hardly sane for Victor Meldrew to judge Razor based solely on his results as a 40 year old with 2 years of professional coaching experience, fucking Lol...
Unaware I was judging him but pointing out his inexperience at Test level and the risk of failure a la 2016 .
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
Straw man argument. No one is saying that.
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Jeff has a point but this is Robertson just being up front. But I personally don't think it put NZR under any more pressure
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Jeff has a point but this is Robertson just being up front. But I personally don't think it put NZR under any more pressure
@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Jeff has a point but this is Robertson just being up front. But I personally don't think it put NZR under any more pressure
Yeah I disagree with Jeff as well. Razor is perfectly entitled to talk his aspirations and potential job opportunities.
It's just coaching, they aren't curing cancer. If there was a little bit more plain talk instead of all this corporate bullshit, perhaps we would be performing better and making better hiring choices.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
Straw man argument. No one is saying that.
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But feel free to call anyone who questions the absolutist belief that Robertson is 100% guaranteed to solve all the problems, with zero risk of failure, insane if it make you feel better.
Straw man argument. No one is saying that.
I wasn't making an argument. I was offering advice.
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I'm not arguing I'm just offering advice.
It is best to stick with Foster because to replace him now with another coach, who has a superior win record, is just inviting chaos. Unless we have criteria that would have kept out Foster, even though we didn't choose him and any criteria the NZR has for him is written in a foam contract with marker pens, locked away in Hansen's jockstrap.
No, far better to leave him there, with his invisible contract KPI and let the NZR in their infinite wisdom steal more of Razor's team to give to the guy who has just been strategic by firing half of his coaching team.
Best to rely on learnings. Like getting Shannon back and hey Jordie can still play on the wing with his new haircut. Ennor is proven class at midfield. And it's time to give Taylor a run at 6-everyone else has.
So why not let Razor and the others gain international experience by taking all their learnings to overseas teams.
Who, let us face it, already know the ABs gameplan inside and out so we might as well send all our future potential AB coaches overseas so they can share their secrets with our competitors.
So that is my advice. Leave the coach with one of the worse recent coaching records in control (if you can call it control) because there is a chance (as big as a shrew's penis) that we will get a worse coach if we actually want a coach who will win a series or two against any team higher than Tonga C or Australia B (if they choose another 10 straight out of high school). And let the other NZ coaches bugger off overseas because they dare to lead winning teams. -
Old misery guts Meldrew (his did choose his name and avatar btw)
Seriously weird comment. Who else did you think chose my name & avatar?
is over thinking this entirely
It's called analysing and debating the problem and discussing potential solutions and risks rather than believing in risk-free magic solutions.
I was trying to show I was referring to your avatar and not you as a person. Clearly didn’t do it very well!
You have contributed a lot to the thread and offered a different point of view than most who are ready to burn Foster at the stake.
You quite rightly state their are lots of issues in Nz rugby and a new coach won’t fix those or necessarily did all the problems with the All Blacks.
I might be paraphrasing but You argued that because foster has lost 2 games in a row then that should be the years stuck for the new coach. Which is seriously flawed.
Foster has underwhelmed as AB coach since his first test match in charge which he was lucky to draw against an Oz side that selected its players from the teams that were routinely put to the sword by Nz super teams. But he was lucky to come out with a draw.
Unfortunately, he has dragged the ABs down to his level and we are regressing under his leadership - nothing we are doing can be considered world class at international level.
We need to take the ABs in isolation and look to fix the problems of that squad. Arguing that we should stick with the status who as we don’t know that the next guy will be better is just accepting mediocrity and not recognising that we have better talent available to lead the squad.
Taking Fozzie out of the equation should have happened by now imo. Hell, even letting the senior players run the team for a couple of weeks would probably lead to an improvement
