Foster, Robertson etc
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@Paekakboyz Who knows. Hopefully it's a bit like that unfounded rumour about Cane losing his captaincy.
The other possibility is that he turned them down and I can see why Razor might not want the top job now, he's got a year to turn this rubble around and we probably don't have the cattle to win the RWC regardless of the coach, so it's a risky job to take atm.
TBH, he would lose mana for me if that was the case. The cattle would be the same if he got the job back in 2020 and considering they're a rubble he basically has a free pass to stuff up over the next year and still be the coach after the RWC.
When does an AB coach get a free pass….
2021
Not from a public perspective. There was strong discontent out there last year. The media weren’t game enough to get stuck in though.
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@Paekakboyz Who knows. Hopefully it's a bit like that unfounded rumour about Cane losing his captaincy.
The other possibility is that he turned them down and I can see why Razor might not want the top job now, he's got a year to turn this rubble around and we probably don't have the cattle to win the RWC regardless of the coach, so it's a risky job to take atm.
TBH, he would lose mana for me if that was the case. The cattle would be the same if he got the job back in 2020 and considering they're a rubble he basically has a free pass to stuff up over the next year and still be the coach after the RWC.
When does an AB coach get a free pass….
2021
Not from a public perspective. There was strong discontent out there last year. The media weren’t game enough to get stuck in though.
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
From a NZRFU contract extension he got a free pass
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
Well that's that then. Lock the thread.
So all Sam is saying is that Gats was right, anyone could coach the ABs!
Foster (pro era) and McDonald have proven that is a fallacy.
And Sam's attitude is correct, even if he's actually wrong. The best players should think that way, we can win no matter what. But actually coaching does make a difference, little things like selection and game plan (or lack there of).
But if be more than happy if foster just left them to it like the first Irish test
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
Well that's that then. Lock the thread.
So all Sam is saying is that Gats was right, anyone could coach the ABs!
Foster (pro era) and McDonald have proven that is a fallacy.
And Sam's attitude is correct, even if he's actually wrong. The best players should think that way, we can win no matter what. But actually coaching does make a difference, little things like selection and game plan (or lack there of).
But if be more than happy if foster just left them to it like the first Irish test
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
Well that's that then. Lock the thread.
So all Sam is saying is that Gats was right, anyone could coach the ABs!
Foster (pro era) and McDonald have proven that is a fallacy.
And Sam's attitude is correct, even if he's actually wrong. The best players should think that way, we can win no matter what. But actually coaching does make a difference, little things like selection and game plan (or lack there of).
But if be more than happy if foster just left them to it like the first Irish test
@Machpants said in Foster:
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
Well that's that then. Lock the thread.
So all Sam is saying is that Gats was right, anyone could coach the ABs!
Foster (pro era) and McDonald have proven that is a fallacy.
Ireland can't beat us for 100 years, then suddenly go to better than 50% and the coach (and systems behind them) don't matter? Pull the other one!
The Irish used to play us with total passion, 100% commitment, and lose. Now they are far more controlled, less passionate, and win.
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
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@Machpants said in Foster:
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
Well that's that then. Lock the thread.
So all Sam is saying is that Gats was right, anyone could coach the ABs!
Foster (pro era) and McDonald have proven that is a fallacy.
Ireland can't beat us for 100 years, then suddenly go to better than 50% and the coach (and systems behind them) don't matter? Pull the other one!
The Irish used to play us with total passion, 100% commitment, and lose. Now they are far more controlled, less passionate, and win.
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
Just up to the end of Q3 in the springbok test. Their players look in better condition. Fit, strong and fast. Athletic and skilled - and generally thinking fast and clearly. We look sluggish by comparison.
I wonder if our prep has fallen behind the rest of the world. Training drills, conditioning, etc - all seemed inferior to Ireland and SA. Hopefully that's just a confidence thing, but damn we look a distant second right now.
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@Machpants said in Foster:
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
Well that's that then. Lock the thread.
So all Sam is saying is that Gats was right, anyone could coach the ABs!
Foster (pro era) and McDonald have proven that is a fallacy.
Ireland can't beat us for 100 years, then suddenly go to better than 50% and the coach (and systems behind them) don't matter? Pull the other one!
The Irish used to play us with total passion, 100% commitment, and lose. Now they are far more controlled, less passionate, and win.
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
Well that's that then. Lock the thread.
So all Sam is saying is that Gats was right, anyone could coach the ABs!
Foster (pro era) and McDonald have proven that is a fallacy.
Ireland can't beat us for 100 years, then suddenly go to better than 50% and the coach (and systems behind them) don't matter? Pull the other one!
The Irish used to play us with total passion, 100% commitment, and lose. Now they are far more controlled, less passionate, and win.
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
You quoted the wrong person!
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
Just up to the end of Q3 in the springbok test. Their players look in better condition. Fit, strong and fast. Athletic and skilled - and generally thinking fast and clearly. We look sluggish by comparison.
I wonder if our prep has fallen behind the rest of the world. Training drills, conditioning, etc - all seemed inferior to Ireland and SA. Hopefully that's just a confidence thing, but damn we look a distant second right now.
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
Just up to the end of Q3 in the springbok test. Their players look in better condition. Fit, strong and fast. Athletic and skilled - and generally thinking fast and clearly. We look sluggish by comparison.
I wonder if our prep has fallen behind the rest of the world. Training drills, conditioning, etc - all seemed inferior to Ireland and SA. Hopefully that's just a confidence thing, but damn we look a distant second right now.
Maybe because we ran ourselves ragged in three first 3/4!
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
Just up to the end of Q3 in the springbok test. Their players look in better condition. Fit, strong and fast. Athletic and skilled - and generally thinking fast and clearly. We look sluggish by comparison.
I wonder if our prep has fallen behind the rest of the world. Training drills, conditioning, etc - all seemed inferior to Ireland and SA. Hopefully that's just a confidence thing, but damn we look a distant second right now.
Maybe because we ran ourselves ragged in three first 3/4!
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
Just up to the end of Q3 in the springbok test. Their players look in better condition. Fit, strong and fast. Athletic and skilled - and generally thinking fast and clearly. We look sluggish by comparison.
I wonder if our prep has fallen behind the rest of the world. Training drills, conditioning, etc - all seemed inferior to Ireland and SA. Hopefully that's just a confidence thing, but damn we look a distant second right now.
Maybe because we ran ourselves ragged in three first 3/4!
it's been consistent right the way through. I'm seriously impressed - after the WIll Jordan break of the Ardie inside ball, we got good quick ruck ball 30+metres downfield -- and their rush defence out wide was rushing and hassling CC. Remarkable effort.
We just seem so passive it's annoying; partially gameplan, but the fitness and skill of the Bokke was superb.
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
Coaching is a major part of any modern team. If you include the wider picture -- selections, training in the off season, fitness, mental preparation etc -- I would suggest it is at least as important as the players.
Just up to the end of Q3 in the springbok test. Their players look in better condition. Fit, strong and fast. Athletic and skilled - and generally thinking fast and clearly. We look sluggish by comparison.
I wonder if our prep has fallen behind the rest of the world. Training drills, conditioning, etc - all seemed inferior to Ireland and SA. Hopefully that's just a confidence thing, but damn we look a distant second right now.
@nzzp fitness is something people have pointed at or asked questions of for the past couple of years I think.
Sure we dont have the firepower on the bench we used to, but our fitness was almost always far superior, now, it, along with our innovation and skills has fallen away.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
Well in the space of 1-2 weeks Jason Ryan has rapidly improved the lineout and maul defence.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
It's taken a couple of years to gradually totally fuck it, and you want it fixed overnight otherwise "what's the point?" Removing the bloke that fucked it doesn't mean someone else can fix it all immediately. All we want is to see some progress instead of more decline. A bit of cohesion, dealing with the high ball, kicking accurately, and not selecting old men over Samisoni. That'd do me for a few games, win or lose.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
You said rapid, in your continuing crusade that ditching Foster just isn't enough and a new coach must be infinitely better with much stricter KPIs.
Dollars to donuts we'll get it (rapid improvement) anyway.
Yes, donuts. I said donuts.
Free lifetime supply if you step aside Fozzie...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
It's taken a couple of years to gradually totally fuck it, and you want it fixed overnight otherwise "what's the point?" Removing the bloke that fucked it doesn't mean someone else can fix it all immediately. All we want is to see some progress instead of more decline. A bit of cohesion, dealing with the high ball, kicking accurately, and not selecting old men over Samisoni. That'd do me for a few games, win or lose.
@reprobate said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
It's taken a couple of years to gradually totally fuck it, and you want it fixed overnight otherwise "what's the point?" Removing the bloke that fucked it doesn't mean someone else can fix it all immediately.
Tell me where I said I wanted it fixed immediately or overnight. If you'd read what I actually wrote, you'd have seen : "looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT".
All we want is to see some progress instead of more decline. A bit of cohesion, dealing with the high ball, kicking accurately, and not selecting old men over Samisoni. That'd do me for a few games, win or lose.
Is 8 Tests enough for you?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
You said rapid, in your continuing crusade that ditching Foster just isn't enough and a new coach must be infinitely better with much stricter KPIs.
Dollars to donuts we'll get it (rapid improvement) anyway.
Yes, donuts. I said donuts.
Free lifetime supply if you step aside Fozzie...
You said rapid, in your continuing crusade that ditching Foster just isn't enough and a new coach must be infinitely better with much stricter KPIs.
Nope. You missed the context. I said people would be expecting rapid progress. I've repeatedly said something like 9 Tests or to the end of 2022 to see significant progress.
And yes, I think people are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think simply replacing the Head Coach means all will be well and we'll be heading inexorably back to the top of the pile. If I were NZR, I'd set some measures and use those to review progress to ensure we don't get a repeat of the last 2-3 years.
And this GOM prefers Chocolate Limes over doughnuts
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
Well in the space of 1-2 weeks Jason Ryan has rapidly improved the lineout and maul defence.
@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
Well in the space of 1-2 weeks Jason Ryan has rapidly improved the lineout and maul defence.
Thanks. Your post pretty much highlights my point that people think rapid progress is easily attained with a coaching change and will expect it.
Personally, I'd want a few more games with that sort of improvement rather than one Test as evidence though.
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You said rapid, in your continuing crusade that ditching Foster just isn't enough and a new coach must be infinitely better with much stricter KPIs.
Nope. You missed the context. I said people would be expecting rapid progress. I've repeatedly said something like 9 Tests or to the end of 2022 to see significant progress.
And yes, I think people are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think simply replacing the Head Coach means all will be well and we'll be heading inexorably back to the top of the pile. If I were NZR, I'd set some measures and use those to review progress to ensure we don't get a repeat of the last 2-3 years.
And this GOM prefers Chocolate Limes over doughnuts
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
if they think simply replacing the Head Coach means all will be well and we'll be heading inexorably back to the top of the pile
No one thinks that. You're arguing against thin air.
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
Well in the space of 1-2 weeks Jason Ryan has rapidly improved the lineout and maul defence.
Thanks. Your post pretty much highlights my point that people think rapid progress is easily attained with a coaching change and will expect it.
Personally, I'd want a few more games with that sort of improvement rather than one Test as evidence though.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
Pressure will be up tenfold in my view and whoever comes in, there will be the shortest of honeymoon periods
Yep, and as almost all the ills have been placed at Foster's doorstep by commentators near and far, people will expect nothing less than rapid improvement.
Nah.
You can stop digging....
Seriously? Because I'd be looking for some serious improvement with game-plan, Defence and player performance with a new Coach by the EOYT, otherwise what's the point?
Well in the space of 1-2 weeks Jason Ryan has rapidly improved the lineout and maul defence.
Thanks. Your post pretty much highlights my point that people think rapid progress is easily attained with a coaching change and will expect it.
Personally, I'd want a few more games with that sort of improvement rather than one Test as evidence though.
Depends what you are talking about. Something like a lineout you can see improvement pretty quickly with organisation and practice (and selecting the right hooker....)
I'm not saying that pace of improvement is realistic for all aspects of play.
However it does show the impact coaching can have.
