All Blacks vs Wales
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@Chris-B Iād say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if youāve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B Iād say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if youāve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if the others even follow rugby, Sevu is absolutely jacked.
He's basically the Fijian version of Laumape, his dimensions are very similar.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Really? He went forward with his balling running as he always does. Retallick's try came from Samisoni busting the defence and then putting BBBR away with the final pass.
The lineout certainly wasn't operating at 100% but to me the throws looked ok to me - looked more like issues with reception by the jumpers.
He's our best hooker by a country mile - need him playing 50-60 minutes in big tests. He's shown in multiple tests he is an effective starter. Suddenly benching him based on one outing vs Japan when he wasn't even that bad feels like over-thinking it.
Samiās throws were off in Saturday. Lucky BBBR try wasnāt cancelled for crooked throw. Even TJ noticed that and a second one, later in first H, I think.
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Really? He went forward with his balling running as he always does. Retallick's try came from Samisoni busting the defence and then putting BBBR away with the final pass.
The lineout certainly wasn't operating at 100% but to me the throws looked ok to me - looked more like issues with reception by the jumpers.
He's our best hooker by a country mile - need him playing 50-60 minutes in big tests. He's shown in multiple tests he is an effective starter. Suddenly benching him based on one outing vs Japan when he wasn't even that bad feels like over-thinking it.
Samiās throws were off in Saturday. Lucky BBBR try wasnāt cancelled for crooked throw. Even TJ noticed that and a second one, later in first H, I think.
Funny how biased we can be - whenever Taylor doesn't connect with a jumper, I scream at him for being useless. When Sami was missing them on the w/e, I was screaming at that useless tit Vai'i :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
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@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
Yawn. This discussion has been done to death.
The one game statements are valid in that he has played one start at 12 in a test (against average opponents)
The past knowledge is pretty old at NPC and pretty average at Super.
I think everyone agrees that he has potential to claim the job but the annointing as saviour based on one performance is at odds to how others get judged. Weāve all seen one good performance players come and go. Even DH has played good games at 12.
Give it time. The air of desperation to be proven right for years of harping is high.
Still think Ardie would be better. -
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
But heāll be using those attributes against midfielders who have specialised in those positions, and not just at lower levels. Most of them are pretty big units themselves, if not as tall. Farrell and Watkin are of a similar weight and Tuilagi isnāt going to be phased by Jordieās size. He wonāt be able to dominate like he did against Aus I suspect,
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
Yawn. This discussion has been done to death.
The one game statements are valid in that he has played one start at 12 in a test (against average opponents)
The past knowledge is pretty old at NPC and pretty average at Super.
I think everyone agrees that he has potential to claim the job but the annointing as saviour based on one performance is at odds to how others get judged. Weāve all seen one good performance players come and go. Even DH has played good games at 12.
Give it time. The air of desperation to be proven right for years of harping is high.
Still think Ardie would be better.@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
Yawn. This discussion has been done to death.
Um, this is the Fern. Where middle aged men go to repeat themselves over and over again.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B Iād say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if youāve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if the others even follow rugby, Sevu is absolutely jacked.
He's basically the Fijian version of Laumape, his dimensions are very similar.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B Iād say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if youāve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if the others even follow rugby, Sevu is absolutely jacked.
He's basically the Fijian version of Laumape, his dimensions are very similar.
Well, here's a test of relativities for you.
According to Steve Hansen Scott Barrett was initially a bit light as a test lock but they were hoping to eventually get him to 120kgs - which I reckon they have.
If Sevu is 99kgs (according to you) then this is what a 21kg weight difference looks like.
If Sevu is low-90s (according to me) this is what a nearly 30kg weight difference looks like. (Note that Sevu is closer to the camera, so it's favouring his size).
If you are right - you should be able to find a similar sort of photo where Sevu is similarly dwarfing the likes Richie Mo'unga (82kgs according to the internet) or Aaron Smith (83kgs) - because they're going to be 16-17kgs lighter than him.
If I'm right, then those guys are only a max of 10kgs smaller than Sevu - and to find a similarly dwarfing photo (30kgs smaller than Sevu) - you're down to George Bennett (the cyclist) at 60kgs!
Here's a starter with Smith....
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Posting here too, because I am feeling some optimism:
The team that played against Australia at Eden Park seemed like a step up in many ways, especially defence. How about we try that combination again, particularly when our performances have been so up and down.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B Iād say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if youāve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if the others even follow rugby, Sevu is absolutely jacked.
He's basically the Fijian version of Laumape, his dimensions are very similar.
Well, here's a test of relativities for you.
According to Steve Hansen Scott Barrett was initially a bit light as a test lock but they were hoping to eventually get him to 120kgs - which I reckon they have.
If Sevu is 99kgs (according to you) then this is what a 21kg weight difference looks like.
If Sevu is low-90s (according to me) this is what a nearly 30kg weight difference looks like. (Note that Sevu is closer to the camera, so it's favouring his size).
If you are right - you should be able to find a similar sort of photo where Sevu is similarly dwarfing the likes Richie Mo'unga (82kgs according to the internet) or Aaron Smith (83kgs) - because they're going to be 16-17kgs lighter than him.
If I'm right, then those guys are only a max of 10kgs smaller than Sevu - and to find a similarly dwarfing photo (30kgs smaller than Sevu) - you're down to George Bennett (the cyclist) at 60kgs!
Here's a starter with Smith....
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B Iād say Sevu is close to 100. Jordan is quite a bit taller than Sevu but if youāve seen the footage of these two in the gym Sevu is no shrinking violet.
The thing with Sevu is the low centre of gravity plus the power that makes him challenging for defenders to get to the ground in the tackle.
Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if the others even follow rugby, Sevu is absolutely jacked.
He's basically the Fijian version of Laumape, his dimensions are very similar.
Well, here's a test of relativities for you.
According to Steve Hansen Scott Barrett was initially a bit light as a test lock but they were hoping to eventually get him to 120kgs - which I reckon they have.
If Sevu is 99kgs (according to you) then this is what a 21kg weight difference looks like.
If Sevu is low-90s (according to me) this is what a nearly 30kg weight difference looks like. (Note that Sevu is closer to the camera, so it's favouring his size).
If you are right - you should be able to find a similar sort of photo where Sevu is similarly dwarfing the likes Richie Mo'unga (82kgs according to the internet) or Aaron Smith (83kgs) - because they're going to be 16-17kgs lighter than him.
If I'm right, then those guys are only a max of 10kgs smaller than Sevu - and to find a similarly dwarfing photo (30kgs smaller than Sevu) - you're down to George Bennett (the cyclist) at 60kgs!
Here's a starter with Smith....
I think Reece would have a very high power to weight ratio but yeah, Iād doubt heās close to 100 kegs. Heās still a relative midget.
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Generous odds to Wales, might be worth a punt.
https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/internationals/wales-v-new-zealand/winner
With the All Blacks in disarray for much of this year, with a passive Head Coach and an injury crisis and jetlag, what better chance will Wales ever get to end their 69-year wait for another win over the ABs?
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@No-Quarter Yeah - I don't think it's very close between Will and Sevu and last Saturday's game didn't change my view.
If Sevu makes the starting XV at RWC I think it will be on the other wing, where Clarke is currently a bit one (well two) dimensional. He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack. That attacking power is a point of difference, though.
After RWC I'm keen to see Will transition to fullback and Jordie to 2nd five. I've got more sympathy for the idea of keeping Jordie at fullback in this cycle. Wouldn't mind seeing ALB tried at 2nd five, but last week's game suggests he's earmarked as a centre.
All going well, I particularly wouldn't mind us finishing this week's game with 11. Rieko, 12. Jordie, 13. ALB, 14. Sevu, 15. Beaudy.
I will incur the wrath of the Mariner though!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack.
I mean, I'm sure you've not got an ounce of bias, but you've just described Jordan.
My biggest gripe with Clarke is....fuck man, stop falling over! Make more people tackle you instead of changing angles and falling over before/in the tackle.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack.
I mean, I'm sure you've not got an ounce of bias, but you've just described Jordan.
My biggest gripe with Clarke is....fuck man, stop falling over! Make more people tackle you instead of changing angles and falling over before/in the tackle.
@Bones Nah, Jordan is good at setting up people. His positional play is very good and he finds his support on attack. What are his assist stats?
All the wings in the ABs are struggling with defense at the moment though. -
@Bones Nah, Jordan is good at setting up people. His positional play is very good and he finds his support on attack. What are his assist stats?
All the wings in the ABs are struggling with defense at the moment though.@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones Nah, Jordan is good at setting up people. His positional play is very good and he finds his support on attack. What are his assist stats?
All the wings in the ABs are struggling with defense at the moment though.Most of the team is struggling with D (Scott McLeod shuffles nervously)
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones Nah, Jordan is good at setting up people. His positional play is very good and he finds his support on attack. What are his assist stats?
All the wings in the ABs are struggling with defense at the moment though.Most of the team is struggling with D (Scott McLeod shuffles nervously)
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@Bones Nah, Jordan is good at setting up people. His positional play is very good and he finds his support on attack. What are his assist stats?
All the wings in the ABs are struggling with defense at the moment though.@Old-Samurai-Jack I can only remember the one where instead of passing to Jordie in space he went himself and managed to get an offload away.
To be fair I'm probably thinking more of last year, where Jordan couldn't find his team mates to save himself. So maybe he's improved this year, but yeah stats would tell the better story. I don't see him as better than Clarke though.
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Generous odds to Wales, might be worth a punt.
https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/internationals/wales-v-new-zealand/winner
With the All Blacks in disarray for much of this year, with a passive Head Coach and an injury crisis and jetlag, what better chance will Wales ever get to end their 69-year wait for another win over the ABs?
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Generous odds to Wales, might be worth a punt.
https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/internationals/wales-v-new-zealand/winner
With the All Blacks in disarray for much of this year, with a passive Head Coach and an injury crisis and jetlag, what better chance will Wales ever get to end their 69-year wait for another win over the ABs?
I'll spend my stake on steak & wine
If we'd played you around the time of the Summer tours and Rugby Championship then I would have gotten a ticket in the hope that I could say 'I was there'
But since then, your mob has been slowly building and remaining Test Match fit whilst most of the Welsh players have floundered at club level in the URC
Shining light has been Louis Rees Zammit who's been tearing it up for Gloucester in the Premisership
Whether he'll get any ball and space on Saturday is very much open to question
We'll be competitive in the first half but most probably lose concentration just before half-time and let in a soft score
We'll start the second half slowly, possibly conceding again, then rally between 50 and 70 to make it interesting
Then your mob will pull away in the last 10 to win by 14-17
I've seen this show before
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@Old-Samurai-Jack I can only remember the one where instead of passing to Jordie in space he went himself and managed to get an offload away.
To be fair I'm probably thinking more of last year, where Jordan couldn't find his team mates to save himself. So maybe he's improved this year, but yeah stats would tell the better story. I don't see him as better than Clarke though.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Old-Samurai-Jack I can only remember the one where instead of passing to Jordie in space he went himself and managed to get an offload away.
To be fair I'm probably thinking more of last year, where Jordan couldn't find his team mates to save himself. So maybe he's improved this year, but yeah stats would tell the better story. I don't see him as better than Clarke though.
I don't think it is close.
I pointed it out earlier this year where Caleb's stats across two of the latter tests (maybe Arg II and Oz I) were something like 20 runs and 1 pass. The 1 pass is exact.
Saturday vs Japan was 13 runs and 1 pass, which I think got deflected.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack I can only remember the one where instead of passing to Jordie in space he went himself and managed to get an offload away.
To be fair I'm probably thinking more of last year, where Jordan couldn't find his team mates to save himself. So maybe he's improved this year, but yeah stats would tell the better story. I don't see him as better than Clarke though.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Old-Samurai-Jack I can only remember the one where instead of passing to Jordie in space he went himself and managed to get an offload away.
It was a winning offload - and what Will probably also knew was that we had a penalty advantage.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack.
I mean, I'm sure you've not got an ounce of bias, but you've just described Jordan.
My biggest gripe with Clarke is....fuck man, stop falling over! Make more people tackle you instead of changing angles and falling over before/in the tackle.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
He is good under the high ball and breaks tackles. But he gets lost on defense too often (though our defensive system isn't designed to make our wings look good) and struggles to find his support on attack.
I mean, I'm sure you've not got an ounce of bias, but you've just described Jordan.
My biggest gripe with Clarke is....fuck man, stop falling over! Make more people tackle you instead of changing angles and falling over before/in the tackle.
My gripe with Clarke is that his ability to break the tackle makes him too hard to drop. But if he doesnāt break the tackle heās 50:50 to lose possession by getting isolated, dropping the ball or, as you say, tripping over. Heās a high risk/ high reward player. So we might as well keep him because weāve got bugger all better if we keep wanting to play RIoane on the centres.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
But heāll be using those attributes against midfielders who have specialised in those positions, and not just at lower levels. Most of them are pretty big units themselves, if not as tall. Farrell and Watkin are of a similar weight and Tuilagi isnāt going to be phased by Jordieās size. He wonāt be able to dominate like he did against Aus I suspect,
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope itās not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
But heāll be using those attributes against midfielders who have specialised in those positions, and not just at lower levels. Most of them are pretty big units themselves, if not as tall. Farrell and Watkin are of a similar weight and Tuilagi isnāt going to be phased by Jordieās size. He wonāt be able to dominate like he did against Aus I suspect,
Yeah he won't be as effective as he was against the Wallabies, but fuck having Havili face those big midfielders! Put it this way, Havili paired with Mo'unga makes me very nervous against the top sides. Put Jordie in there to at least match their physicality and we look a damn sight stronger already.
