All Blacks vs Wales
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@Victor-Meldrew it was by far the best performance in the 12 jersey since Nonu I would say.
We need to explore this option further, and I am sure we will, it does depend on what the team tactics and needs are for each individual game over the next 3 weeks.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew it was by far the best performance in the 12 jersey since Nonu I would say.
We need to explore this option further, and I am sure we will, it does depend on what the team tactics and needs are for each individual game over the next 3 weeks.
I'm sure he'll get plenty of time there.
As I've said further up the thread, Foster takes a low-risk approach (may not agree with it, but it isn't an entirely stupid approach) but with DH & ALB back that risk has been minimised
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I want to see more of Mounga 10 Jordie 12 Beaudy 15. It worked really well Bledisloe 2.
I agree, Beauden and Mo'unga finally started complimenting each other rather than getting in each others way. I'd like to see that continue, as with those two plus Jordie on the field we have so many different points of attack. You get the likes of Clarke, Jordan, Reece, Rieko running off them and that is a bloody handful to try and defend.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I want to see more of Mounga 10 Jordie 12 Beaudy 15. It worked really well Bledisloe 2.
The issue at the moment with that set up is the bench for both cover and impact without Jordan available.
If Mounga goes off and BB goes to 10 you are forced to move JB which disrupts the whole 'ideal' structure. (BB, DH, JB has been tried and wasn't that good). The other option is to have 15 cover on the bench so the BB, JB combo can have a shot. At the moment that would be Perofeta, who looked well out of his depth against Japan.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I want to see more of Mounga 10 Jordie 12 Beaudy 15. It worked really well Bledisloe 2.
The issue at the moment with that set up is the bench for both cover and impact without Jordan available.
If Mounga goes off and BB goes to 10 you are forced to move JB which disrupts the whole 'ideal' structure. (BB, DH, JB has been tried and wasn't that good). The other option is to have 15 cover on the bench so the BB, JB combo can have a shot. At the moment that would be Perofeta, who looked well out of his depth against Japan.
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Yep you have DH and ALB on the bench and you have all positions well covered.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Crucial Havili can also cover 15 and he'll likely be on the bench anyway.
I did think of that but I doubt very much that after seasons of training as a specialist 12 he will be viewed seriously as covering a position that he hasn't played in a long time. If it was in a crisis then absolutely, but as a planned bench option? I'm not so sure.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Jordie covers wing again eh?
I realise that Rieko would be the first option.
Rieko, Beauden, ALB, DH, almost anyone would be better options on the wing haha. God that was a failed experiment with Jordie.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Jordie covers wing again eh?
I realise that Rieko would be the first option.
Rieko, Beauden, ALB, DH, almost anyone would be better options on the wing haha. God that was a failed experiment with Jordie.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Jordie covers wing again eh?
I realise that Rieko would be the first option.
Rieko, Beauden, ALB, DH, almost anyone would be better options on the wing haha. God that was a failed experiment with Jordie.
You mean like this game where he scored 4 tries at wing?
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2305Funny thing was that he was completely lost, kept asking DMac where he should be but ended up being the top tryscorer.
I was at the game and the animated 'discussions' he and DMac were having in the back field were quite funny to watch -
Let's start with the right forwards in the right jerseys. If the pack performs well, it will make a hell of a difference to how the backline goes. Against Japan, the pack didn't go well, so it's not suprising that the backs struggled, too. Add to that a stupid game plan with too much kicking combined with a malfunctioning defence, plus too many rookies, and you have a recipe for a poor performance.
While I agree that Jordie should get another shot in the 12 jersey, I also think he's a better fullback than BB. With Jordan not in the squad, I can see merit in starting Jordie at fullback, with BB on the bench.
But as I said, get the forward combination, especially the backrow, right first.
@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Let's start with the right forwards in the right jerseys. If the pack performs well, it will make a hell of a difference to how the backline goes. Against Japan, the pack didn't go well, so it's not suprising that the backs struggled, too. Add to that a stupid game plan with too much kicking combined with a malfunctioning defence, plus too many rookies, and you have a recipe for a poor performance.
While I agree that Jordie should get another shot in the 12 jersey, I also think he's a better fullback than BB. With Jordan not in the squad, I can see merit in starting Jordie at fullback, with BB on the bench.
But as I said, get the forward combination, especially the backrow, right first.
While I am never as quick to excuse the guys on the field as you
I pretty much agree with everything here
JB at 12 needs a full tour now to show it's for real. But his problem is, who plays 15? And thrn the question is, is the drop to the 2nd best 12 or 15 the biggest?
I also really hate a bench player's introduction resulting in more than 1 change
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@Crucial lol yeah he didn't actually play that well in that game from memory, just dotted the ball down 4 times. Might have taken a decent cross kick for one of them? He's just not a winger, it was bizarre that they persisted with that for so long.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Let's start with the right forwards in the right jerseys. If the pack performs well, it will make a hell of a difference to how the backline goes. Against Japan, the pack didn't go well, so it's not suprising that the backs struggled, too. Add to that a stupid game plan with too much kicking combined with a malfunctioning defence, plus too many rookies, and you have a recipe for a poor performance.
While I agree that Jordie should get another shot in the 12 jersey, I also think he's a better fullback than BB. With Jordan not in the squad, I can see merit in starting Jordie at fullback, with BB on the bench.
But as I said, get the forward combination, especially the backrow, right first.
While I am never as quick to excuse the guys on the field as you
I pretty much agree with everything here
JB at 12 needs a full tour now to show it's for real. But his problem is, who plays 15? And thrn the question is, is the drop to the 2nd best 12 or 15 the biggest?
I also really hate a bench player's introduction resulting in more than 1 change
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Let's start with the right forwards in the right jerseys. If the pack performs well, it will make a hell of a difference to how the backline goes. Against Japan, the pack didn't go well, so it's not suprising that the backs struggled, too. Add to that a stupid game plan with too much kicking combined with a malfunctioning defence, plus too many rookies, and you have a recipe for a poor performance.
While I agree that Jordie should get another shot in the 12 jersey, I also think he's a better fullback than BB. With Jordan not in the squad, I can see merit in starting Jordie at fullback, with BB on the bench.
But as I said, get the forward combination, especially the backrow, right first.
While I am never as quick to excuse the guys on the field as you
I pretty much agree with everything here
JB at 12 needs a full tour now to show it's for real. But his problem is, who plays 15? And thrn the question is, is the drop to the 2nd best 12 or 15 the biggest?
I also really hate a bench player's introduction resulting in more than 1 change
The drop to 2nd best 12 is undoubtedly bigger. We have Beauden and Jordan (longer term) at 15, the cupboard is very bare at 12, hence us trying to shoehorn Havili there. I'm also more excited by Beauden and Jordan at the back as that gives us extra attacking ability, E.G. scoring tries out of absolutely fucking nothing which can turn the course of a test, which we may need when our forwards are getting smacked around.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Let's start with the right forwards in the right jerseys. If the pack performs well, it will make a hell of a difference to how the backline goes. Against Japan, the pack didn't go well, so it's not suprising that the backs struggled, too. Add to that a stupid game plan with too much kicking combined with a malfunctioning defence, plus too many rookies, and you have a recipe for a poor performance.
While I agree that Jordie should get another shot in the 12 jersey, I also think he's a better fullback than BB. With Jordan not in the squad, I can see merit in starting Jordie at fullback, with BB on the bench.
But as I said, get the forward combination, especially the backrow, right first.
While I am never as quick to excuse the guys on the field as you
I pretty much agree with everything here
JB at 12 needs a full tour now to show it's for real. But his problem is, who plays 15? And thrn the question is, is the drop to the 2nd best 12 or 15 the biggest?
I also really hate a bench player's introduction resulting in more than 1 change
The drop to 2nd best 12 is undoubtedly bigger. We have Beauden and Jordan (longer term) at 15, the cupboard is very bare at 12, hence us trying to shoehorn Havili there. I'm also more excited by Beauden and Jordan at the back as that gives us extra attacking ability, E.G. scoring tries out of absolutely fucking nothing which can turn the course of a test, which we may need when our forwards are getting smacked around.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
the cupboard is very bare at 12
I still reckon that a well coached Laumape could have been a bloody good 12 at Test level. Just never got his head right at that level I don't think.
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We need 10 running to hold defenders
A threat at 12 to hold defendersTo open space for our best attacking threat, our lightning quick 13.
But as stargazer said, without good ball 10, 12 and 13 are there to make tackles
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I would have said DMac to cover 15 from bench, but it is likely he will start for AB XV. More likely to be DH covering from bench.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
Would love to see him start at 13 to get the full deck of 10-15
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@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
Would love to see him start at 13 to get the full deck of 10-15
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
Would love to see him start at 13 to get the full deck of 10-15
He needs to play no.8 so we can have a tall player there finally.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Let's start with the right forwards in the right jerseys. If the pack performs well, it will make a hell of a difference to how the backline goes. Against Japan, the pack didn't go well, so it's not suprising that the backs struggled, too. Add to that a stupid game plan with too much kicking combined with a malfunctioning defence, plus too many rookies, and you have a recipe for a poor performance.
While I agree that Jordie should get another shot in the 12 jersey, I also think he's a better fullback than BB. With Jordan not in the squad, I can see merit in starting Jordie at fullback, with BB on the bench.
But as I said, get the forward combination, especially the backrow, right first.
While I am never as quick to excuse the guys on the field as you
I pretty much agree with everything here
JB at 12 needs a full tour now to show it's for real. But his problem is, who plays 15? And thrn the question is, is the drop to the 2nd best 12 or 15 the biggest?
I also really hate a bench player's introduction resulting in more than 1 change
The drop to 2nd best 12 is undoubtedly bigger. We have Beauden and Jordan (longer term) at 15, the cupboard is very bare at 12, hence us trying to shoehorn Havili there. I'm also more excited by Beauden and Jordan at the back as that gives us extra attacking ability, E.G. scoring tries out of absolutely fucking nothing which can turn the course of a test, which we may need when our forwards are getting smacked around.
@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball Jordie’s ability to not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - he is pretty damn good at this and one of the better players I’ve seen.
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@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball Jordie’s ability to not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - he is pretty damn good at this and one of the better players I’ve seen.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball and not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - Jordie is pretty damn good and one of the better players I’ve seen at it.
As a few of us have said recently it's all about the relative drop off at 15 (JB to BB) vs 12 (JB to DV/RTS)
I'd def go with AS & RM, JB and RI midfield, CC and SR wings, with BB at 15.
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@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball Jordie’s ability to not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - he is pretty damn good at this and one of the better players I’ve seen.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball Jordie’s ability to not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - he is pretty damn good at this and one of the better players I’ve seen.
I mean, it's as easy as getting Havili back to 15 innit?
