All Blacks 2022
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
They obviously aren’t fixed on the other two halfback spots yet so want to keep options open.
I think they are - but this is for the first injury cap off the rank. Christie has played enough to have a good track record in Black, recent game aside. Fakatava is clearly one for the future, and while his form this year hasn't been as good, you can see why they want him there.
Weber and TJP will be injury reserves I suspect. Foster said on the radio clip I heard this morning that 'this was always the plan once Folau got injured' - in reference to swapping the two halfbacks in the squad. It makes sense; keeps options open, gets people used to squad routines and rhythms, gets a bit of experience.
Both of these guys have all of that experience anyway.
I'm not so convinced that they are wedded to Fakatava being at the RWC to be honest. What indicators (apart from initial selection) have they shown so far?
My theory on this may well be way off though as they do seem to treat the 'backup' squad memebers strangely with regard to even giving them a taste of game prep. If you want a free ride of training to never play it seems a good bet to be a low ranked member of this squad.
Perofeta, LF, RTS Fakatava etc. Hell there have even been guys they bring in then throw away without even trying them despite giving them pass marks at training. Quite baffling at times.
There will also be heaps of AB XV players that may not get a chance as well, especially with the ABs throwing them discards
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@Crucial add Aidan Ross to that list. Maybe Telea and Dickson. But I hope Telea gets a chance v Scotland.
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial add Aidan Ross to that list. Maybe Telea and Dickson. But I hope Telea gets a chance v Scotland.
Ross was one I was specifically thinking of.
Gets selected, gets talked up for what he is doing at training, doesn’t play. Gets deselected.
I don’t have too many qualms about where they ended up front row wise but Ross was never given his chance. Bower isn’t much more than adequate and it would have been good to see someone pushing him. -
Weather forecast for Scotland looking not too bad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2650225
Might be worth picking a side to run with ball.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
They obviously aren’t fixed on the other two halfback spots yet so want to keep options open.
I think they are - but this is for the first injury cap off the rank. Christie has played enough to have a good track record in Black, recent game aside. Fakatava is clearly one for the future, and while his form this year hasn't been as good, you can see why they want him there.
Weber and TJP will be injury reserves I suspect. Foster said on the radio clip I heard this morning that 'this was always the plan once Folau got injured' - in reference to swapping the two halfbacks in the squad. It makes sense; keeps options open, gets people used to squad routines and rhythms, gets a bit of experience.
Both of these guys have all of that experience anyway.
I'm not so convinced that they are wedded to Fakatava being at the RWC to be honest. What indicators (apart from initial selection) have they shown so far?
My theory on this may well be way off though as they do seem to treat the 'backup' squad memebers strangely with regard to even giving them a taste of game prep. If you want a free ride of training to never play it seems a good bet to be a low ranked member of this squad.
Perofeta, LF, RTS Fakatava etc. Hell there have even been guys they bring in then throw away without even trying them despite giving them pass marks at training. Quite baffling at times.
There will also be heaps of AB XV players that may not get a chance as well, especially with the ABs throwing them discards
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
There will also be heaps of AB XV players that may not get a chance as well, especially with the ABs throwing them discards
Half the starting AB XV backline will be different with the AB comings and goings. Weber starts in place of TJP, an entirely new midfield, and LF in for Lam. And they've added two late replacements in the forwards...
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
They obviously aren’t fixed on the other two halfback spots yet so want to keep options open.
I think they are - but this is for the first injury cap off the rank. Christie has played enough to have a good track record in Black, recent game aside. Fakatava is clearly one for the future, and while his form this year hasn't been as good, you can see why they want him there.
Weber and TJP will be injury reserves I suspect. Foster said on the radio clip I heard this morning that 'this was always the plan once Folau got injured' - in reference to swapping the two halfbacks in the squad. It makes sense; keeps options open, gets people used to squad routines and rhythms, gets a bit of experience.
Both of these guys have all of that experience anyway.
I'm not so convinced that they are wedded to Fakatava being at the RWC to be honest. What indicators (apart from initial selection) have they shown so far?
My theory on this may well be way off though as they do seem to treat the 'backup' squad memebers strangely with regard to even giving them a taste of game prep. If you want a free ride of training to never play it seems a good bet to be a low ranked member of this squad.
Perofeta, LF, RTS Fakatava etc. Hell there have even been guys they bring in then throw away without even trying them despite giving them pass marks at training. Quite baffling at times.
There will also be heaps of AB XV players that may not get a chance as well, especially with the ABs throwing them discards
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
They obviously aren’t fixed on the other two halfback spots yet so want to keep options open.
I think they are - but this is for the first injury cap off the rank. Christie has played enough to have a good track record in Black, recent game aside. Fakatava is clearly one for the future, and while his form this year hasn't been as good, you can see why they want him there.
Weber and TJP will be injury reserves I suspect. Foster said on the radio clip I heard this morning that 'this was always the plan once Folau got injured' - in reference to swapping the two halfbacks in the squad. It makes sense; keeps options open, gets people used to squad routines and rhythms, gets a bit of experience.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
They obviously aren’t fixed on the other two halfback spots yet so want to keep options open.
I think they are - but this is for the first injury cap off the rank. Christie has played enough to have a good track record in Black, recent game aside. Fakatava is clearly one for the future, and while his form this year hasn't been as good, you can see why they want him there.
You haven't watched most Highlanders game, have you? He came back from a terrible ACL injury that kept him out of the game for 9-10 months, so the first SRP games obviously he lacked match fitness. But he got better every game he played and was really pushing Smith (to Smith's own admission) near the end of the SRP season. He was excellent! He struggled a bit in his two short outings in black with his decision-making, but it's not fair to judge him on those performances as he was thrown into the deep end in that 2nd Irish test when the ABs were already trailing and playing terrible as a squad. Not sure how a 22-year old rookie was supposed to "fix" that. The ABs weren't any better in the 3rd test, as we all know.
I've found Christie only just adequate in his outings.
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@Crucial isn't Fakatava out for 9-12 months again regardless? or is it possible he'll feature in Super?
@FakatavaAllBlack IIRC the latest update stated that they were waiting for scans to determine whether he needed surgery. If he needed surgery, it could take about 8 months. I remember reading something that they were hoping - in that case - he could feature for the Highlanders at the end of the season, but obviously that also depends on whether the Highlanders make the play-offs. If he doesn't need surgery, the time frame for his return could be shorter. I don't remember reading anywhere that he's had surgery or will have surgery.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
They obviously aren’t fixed on the other two halfback spots yet so want to keep options open.
I think they are - but this is for the first injury cap off the rank. Christie has played enough to have a good track record in Black, recent game aside. Fakatava is clearly one for the future, and while his form this year hasn't been as good, you can see why they want him there.
You haven't watched most Highlanders game, have you? He came back from a terrible ACL injury that kept him out of the game for 9-10 months, so the first SRP games obviously he lacked match fitness. But he got better every game he played and was really pushing Smith (to Smith's own admission) near the end of the SRP season. He was excellent! He struggled a bit in his two short outings in black with his decision-making, but it's not fair to judge him on those performances as he was thrown into the deep end in that 2nd Irish test when the ABs were already trailing and playing terrible as a squad. Not sure how a 22-year old rookie was supposed to "fix" that. The ABs weren't any better in the 3rd test, as we all know.
I've found Christie only just adequate in his outings.
@Stargazer I don't disagree with any of that just not convinced that the coaching team have him nailed in.
That could be because of injury and the time it will take to get going again. The lack of high level experience because of that situation. Maybe he had a lot of work ons coming through at training. I don't really know.
That could mean that TJ, Weber and Christie are now the focus and they are trying to give each a fair chance of stating their case. -
@Stargazer I don't disagree with any of that just not convinced that the coaching team have him nailed in.
That could be because of injury and the time it will take to get going again. The lack of high level experience because of that situation. Maybe he had a lot of work ons coming through at training. I don't really know.
That could mean that TJ, Weber and Christie are now the focus and they are trying to give each a fair chance of stating their case.@Crucial I'm convinced it's because of the injury and that he'd have had game time (maybe even a start v Scotland) during the EOYT if he had been available. Japan, Wales, Scotland would have been excellent opportunities for him, but that bloody ACL just ruined it. Fakatava just brings something different to the other halfbacks. He's fast and physical, good on defence. Those skills are all there and only need polishing; the decision-making is something that will improve with experience.
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@Crucial I'm convinced it's because of the injury and that he'd have had game time (maybe even a start v Scotland) during the EOYT if he had been available. Japan, Wales, Scotland would have been excellent opportunities for him, but that bloody ACL just ruined it. Fakatava just brings something different to the other halfbacks. He's fast and physical, good on defence. Those skills are all there and only need polishing; the decision-making is something that will improve with experience.
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial I'm convinced it's because of the injury and that he'd have had game time (maybe even a start v Scotland) during the EOYT if he had been available. Japan, Wales, Scotland would have been excellent opportunities for him, but that bloody ACL just ruined it. Fakatava just brings something different to the other halfbacks. He's fast and physical, good on defence. Those skills are all there and only need polishing; the decision-making is something that will improve with experience.
He just doesn't have much chance to get experience now.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial I'm convinced it's because of the injury and that he'd have had game time (maybe even a start v Scotland) during the EOYT if he had been available. Japan, Wales, Scotland would have been excellent opportunities for him, but that bloody ACL just ruined it. Fakatava just brings something different to the other halfbacks. He's fast and physical, good on defence. Those skills are all there and only need polishing; the decision-making is something that will improve with experience.
He just doesn't have much chance to get experience now.
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i have to say im really struggling with those willing to forgive a halfback having even an average pass for the other things they might bring.....he's a fucking halfback...good passing is a huge part of his job...this is how we end up with hookers that cant throw or props who cant scrummage
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i have to say im really struggling with those willing to forgive a halfback having even an average pass for the other things they might bring.....he's a fucking halfback...good passing is a huge part of his job...this is how we end up with hookers that cant throw or props who cant scrummage
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
i have to say im really struggling with those willing to forgive a halfback having even an average pass for the other things they might bring.....he's a fucking halfback...good passing is a huge part of his job...this is how we end up with hookers that cant throw or props who cant scrummage
Justin Marshall has entered the chat.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
i have to say im really struggling with those willing to forgive a halfback having even an average pass for the other things they might bring.....he's a fucking halfback...good passing is a huge part of his job...this is how we end up with hookers that cant throw or props who cant scrummage
Justin Marshall has entered the chat.
@gt12 i feel sick....and very conflicted....am i a bad guy?
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Our potential 23 for next year's world cup is looking a bit clearer now isn't it?
Groot, Sami, Lomax, Rettalick, Whitelock, Barrett, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Clarke, J.Barrett, R.Ioane, Jordan, B.Barrett.
Taylor, Tu'ungafasi, Newell, Vaa'i, Papali'i, Fakatava, Lienert-Brown, Havili/Reece.
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Our potential 23 for next year's world cup is looking a bit clearer now isn't it?
Groot, Sami, Lomax, Rettalick, Whitelock, Barrett, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Clarke, J.Barrett, R.Ioane, Jordan, B.Barrett.
Taylor, Tu'ungafasi, Newell, Vaa'i, Papali'i, Fakatava, Lienert-Brown, Havili/Reece.
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Our potential 23 for next year's world cup is looking a bit clearer now isn't it?
Groot, Sami, Lomax, Rettalick, Whitelock, Barrett, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Clarke, J.Barrett, R.Ioane, Jordan, B.Barrett.
Taylor, Tu'ungafasi, Newell, Vaa'i, Papali'i, Fakatava, Lienert-Brown, Havili/Reece.
As mentioned, just a question mark on Fakatava due to experience and coming back from injury, plus they haven't shown confidence in him being in the 23 yet.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
Our potential 23 for next year's world cup is looking a bit clearer now isn't it?
Groot, Sami, Lomax, Rettalick, Whitelock, Barrett, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Clarke, J.Barrett, R.Ioane, Jordan, B.Barrett.
Taylor, Tu'ungafasi, Newell, Vaa'i, Papali'i, Fakatava, Lienert-Brown, Havili/Reece.
As mentioned, just a question mark on Fakatava due to experience and coming back from injury, plus they haven't shown confidence in him being in the 23 yet.
@Crucial yeah, i think he would have to have a pretty impressive super rugby campaign and we're not even sure how much of one he'll get
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Our potential 23 for next year's world cup is looking a bit clearer now isn't it?
Groot, Sami, Lomax, Rettalick, Whitelock, Barrett, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mo'unga, Clarke, J.Barrett, R.Ioane, Jordan, B.Barrett.
Taylor, Tu'ungafasi, Newell, Vaa'i, Papali'i, Fakatava, Lienert-Brown, Havili/Reece.
@kiwi_expat Joe Moody will have a say at loosehead.
Despite a small handful of naysayers, Fern Favourite Shannon Frizell has the inside track at 6. Loosies are more balanced with AIoane on the bench - along with SBarrett.
Right now, I'd be a bit surprised if Fakatava makes the squad. I'd pick Smith, Weber and Christie as my halfbacks, but I said similar at the start of this year and that proved wrong.
I've still got question-marks about Clarke, but if Beauden is at fullback I don't like Reece also being in the back 3.
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@kiwi_expat Joe Moody will have a say at loosehead.
Despite a small handful of naysayers, Fern Favourite Shannon Frizell has the inside track at 6. Loosies are more balanced with AIoane on the bench - along with SBarrett.
Right now, I'd be a bit surprised if Fakatava makes the squad. I'd pick Smith, Weber and Christie as my halfbacks, but I said similar at the start of this year and that proved wrong.
I've still got question-marks about Clarke, but if Beauden is at fullback I don't like Reece also being in the back 3.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat Joe Moody will have a say at loosehead.
Despite a small handful of naysayers, Fern Favourite Shannon Frizell has the inside track at 6.
3 locks is the way to go for international sides in the modern game, the reason they didn't stick with Barrett at 6 after Eden Park test was Rettalick got injured. Scott Barrett at 6 was hugely influential for ABs in their dominant performance, 1st test against Ireland.
