All Blacks vs Scotland
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The bottom line is at the start of the year we didn't have a forward pack. Now we do. And JB to 12.
We have a chance at the WC. -
Haven't read the thread. Just a few of my 2 cents:
Telea didn't look like he was on debut. He looked right at home in black. Should start again next week, with Reece on the other wing.
DP and Ardie very good; I really like that combo. Akira started well, faded badly. Frizell showed why he should start. He's the better 6. Hoping for a Blackadder comeback next year. His versatility, workrate and energy may be exactly what we need.
Locks were solid. Scott Barrett is a starting lock to me, although I can see him playing at 6 next year, as well.
Reserve frontrow went better than starting frontrow, although Sami wasn't bad. Taylor just had major impact and was the catalyst of our comeback. I'm glad he has returned to form.ALB's card was deserved but they should have gone back to when the ref obstructed Paps and not awarded the pt.
Havili's intercept pass was awful, but I think the tackling after that was terrible as well. That try should not have been scored.
Also, Havili went down after about 20 minutes, got about half a km of bandage around his ankle/foot and it clearly affected him. Why was he not pulled sooner? Rieko was great when he came on. ALB looked very rusty.
Jordie was good at 15, although a bit more quiet than usual.The most problematic players to me were 9, 10 and 11. Christie is slower than a snail; he made TJP look good when he came on. In fairness to TJP, he brought great energy. I still prefer Weber though.
BB sigh, he is not a 10. Plain and simple. His kicking game only seems to get worse with every game he plays. Really makes me wonder why Perofeta only got one minute. I'd like to see him get some time at 10. I wonder what the coaches see at training; there must be a reason why Perofeta gets so little game time?
Clarke, it just doesn't click. He's had so many chances, starting (about) every game. Having seen Telea today, I'd like to see him and Reece on the wings. Clarke needs tackle classes, and whatever is necessary to keep him from falling over. He was good under the high ball, but that's about it.@Stargazer said in All Blacks Vs England:
Scott Barrett is a starting lock to me, although I can see him playing at 6 next year, as well
this is the main selection conundrum. I personally love the 3 lock punch, and i personally believe we sell SB a little short at 6.
But this super direct stuff we are playing at the moment does make SB at 6 a decent option. I still think he is a little slow, and Frizzel's foot speed makes more sense, but hey, if we are just going to try and bash teams senseless lets go as big as we can.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Tbf Mate, when half of that winning streak is Japan, Wales and Scotland, it's not exactly going to be the talk of the town around here.
Two of those teams are playing pretty darn well though.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Tbf Mate, when half of that winning streak is Japan, Wales and Scotland, it's not exactly going to be the talk of the town around here.
Two of those teams are playing pretty darn well though.
Regardless, a 6 game winning streak involving those teams is unlikely to give any AB supporter much of a horn. Particularly after the horrors that preceded it.
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Watched a delayed viewing. NZ were a bit lucky
Based on this game
TJ was much better than Christie. I would prefer him as one of the backups. We are lucky to still have Smith.
B Barrett best position now is FB. Hope he mostly plays there in super rugby so some other options (inc Perofeta and Sullivan) get game time at first
J Barrett's best position is 2nd 5. But he was still good enough at FB
DH was poor. ALB was poor to start but improved as the game went on
Telea was good. He will never be a great AB but is a safe option
Clarke. I like one power winger but maybe NZ just don't have one of AB std at present. Telea and Reece as our 2 winger is a bit ordinary. -
Credit to Foster for bringing back Perenara into the group.
He could have easily stuck with Weber.
It paid off.
Telea hadn't played in 5 weeks but no signs of rust which was pleasing.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Telea hadn't played in 5 weeks but no signs of rust which was pleasing.
Looked assertive with ball in hand. Didn’t drift and went forward. According to one set of stats he and Ardie topped the carry count.
Only concern was falling off tackles. Some of the tackling stats aren’t great reading.
Jordie - 3 made / 4 missed
Talea - 1 made / 3 missed
Clarke - 2 made / 3 missedALB - 5 made / 1 missed
Havili - 11 made / 2 missedBeaudie - 5 made / 0 missed
Christie - 5 made / 0 missedArdie - 9 made / 1 missed
Dalton - 13 made / 4 missed
Akira - 4 made / 3 missedScooter - 8 made / 1 missed
Whitelock - 11 made / 1 missedNepo - 7 made / 0 missed
EDG - 4 made / 3 missed
Sami - 9 made / 2 missed -
26 penalties in the match is high (13 each), which did contribute to a stop start match.
28 lineouts too is quite high. ABs only lost the one which I think was the short throw by Sami that Scotland picked off.
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Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece starts@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece startsBeaudy doesn’t deserve to play fullback either.
Doesn’t score anymore, doesn’t have a long punt.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@MajorRage Agree re forwards but our set piece lost us quite a bit of territory and possession today which needs to be improved.
Against a fired up decent Scotland pack, I think they did ok.
Scotland at home isn't what it used to be. It's a real challenge now.
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Scotland at home isn't what it used to be. It's a real challenge now.
Give the All Blacks a Challenge
Argentina
England
France
Ireland
Japan
Scotland
South AfricaDon't Give the All Blacks a Challenge
Australia
Wales
Yemen -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Yeah this chopping and changing is such a great idea. Fucking change my mind.
Ma'a Nonu played something like 70 tests at 12 and 62 of those were with Conrad Smith. Jordie B has had 2 and looks a million times better than that headless chook Havili. We're 10 tests away from a QF but yeah, keep changing the fucking team.
Since 2015 we've been looking for centers. Hansen fucked the team around all the way up to the SF in 2019. Foster has done the same. Finally find a potential candidate and he won't be played 2 tests in succession.
For all the doom and gloom in this test, the Jocks are gifted a PT (DP was blocked from making a tackle and the ball ingoal makes a huge dogleg to the left, not probable in my book but hey) and Mr Indecisive gift wraps and pass right into the hands of the Jocks.
And what happens if we put all our eggs in the Jordie basket, he gets injured and we don't have back-ups with reasonable experience.?
You can say that about any number of players from every single team in the world. That's just the nature of the beast. This obsession NZ has with trying to have 2 players in every position with loads of test experience is absurd and is really hurting us as our top team rarely gets consecutive games together. We are just shooting ourselves in the foot with this while other teams build combinations.
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
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Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
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Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
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Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
-
Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
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Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
-
Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
-
Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
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Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
-
Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
nerd
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece startsBeaudy doesn’t deserve to play fullback either.
Doesn’t score anymore, doesn’t have a long punt.
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece startsBeaudy doesn’t deserve to play fullback either.
Doesn’t score anymore, doesn’t have a long punt.
I am not quite ready to throw him out to pasture just yet, but I admit that thought has crossed my mind too.
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BB is still pretty good at 15.
Wish he would stick to the basics. I don't care for the cross kick. -
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece startsBeaudy doesn’t deserve to play fullback either.
Doesn’t score anymore, doesn’t have a long punt.
I am not quite ready to throw him out to pasture just yet, but I admit that thought has crossed my mind too.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece startsBeaudy doesn’t deserve to play fullback either.
Doesn’t score anymore, doesn’t have a long punt.
I am not quite ready to throw him out to pasture just yet, but I admit that thought has crossed my mind too.
me either, definitely a squad member
But he's an adequate fullback and a diabolical 10.
It's sort of interesting how quietly, as the year has progressed, our back 3 have actually become the teams most pressing issue, when at the start it would have been assumed they were our strength
Jordan isn't on tour, but has struggled as much as he has excelled this year
Clarke has a few glaring issues to work on
Reece is so busy, but has errors in his game as well
JBarret has gone to 12, but at fullback he's slow and not exactly an open field threat. His kicking game isn't top notch either
BBarrett is filling in, and looks it. Not 100% under the high ball, struggles to kick more than 25 metres.None of them are bad options by any stretch of the imagination, but not a single one is an out and out star absolutely demanding selection either (Jordan has the highest ceiling though)
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece startsBeaudy doesn’t deserve to play fullback either.
Doesn’t score anymore, doesn’t have a long punt.
I am not quite ready to throw him out to pasture just yet, but I admit that thought has crossed my mind too.
me either, definitely a squad member
But he's an adequate fullback and a diabolical 10.
It's sort of interesting how quietly, as the year has progressed, our back 3 have actually become the teams most pressing issue, when at the start it would have been assumed they were our strength
Jordan isn't on tour, but has struggled as much as he has excelled this year
Clarke has a few glaring issues to work on
Reece is so busy, but has errors in his game as well
JBarret has gone to 12, but at fullback he's slow and not exactly an open field threat. His kicking game isn't top notch either
BBarrett is filling in, and looks it. Not 100% under the high ball, struggles to kick more than 25 metres.None of them are bad options by any stretch of the imagination, but not a single one is an out and out star absolutely demanding selection either (Jordan has the highest ceiling though)
@mariner4life it was interesting listening to Beaver afte the game and he said Mo’unga to 10 Jordie to 12, ALB at 13, Ioane to left wing and Beaudie to fullback.
Said it with a straight face too.
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@mariner4life it was interesting listening to Beaver afte the game and he said Mo’unga to 10 Jordie to 12, ALB at 13, Ioane to left wing and Beaudie to fullback.
Said it with a straight face too.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@mariner4life it was interesting listening to Beaver afte the game and he said Mo’unga to 10 Jordie to 12, ALB at 13, Ioane to left wing and Beaudie to fullback.
Said it with a straight face too.
so close Beav, so close
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
-
Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
-
Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
-
Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
-
Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
-
Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
-
Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
Heres another stat. The played in 62 tests together. Do we have 62 tests between now and the QF?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
-
Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
-
Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
-
Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
Heres another stat. The played in 62 tests together. Do we have 62 tests between now and the QF?
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
-
Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
-
Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
-
Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
Heres another stat. The played in 62 tests together. Do we have 62 tests between now and the QF?
I think we have 63. So plenty of time.
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I'm sick of these people on here claiming we need to find a second option to JB.
So your answer is not to bother about any back-ups at 12 and just play Jordie there and give bugger-all thought to managing his workload?
The only problem with that is what you do (apart from blaming Foster for being an idiot for not developing MF options) if/when Jordie gets injured.
Listen to yourself FFS. We have 10 tests or so. Potentially our greatest pairing had something like 30-40 in a partnership over 6 or 7 years to become O for awesome. Wats your suggestion? Keep playing alternative 12s for the next fucking 10 tests until we find JBs* back up? We don't have fucking time because Foster has been shit for the last 3 years. We're a year behind in our development. Ideally all this shit would have been sorted last year. It's fucking unbelievable you're still advocating for a merry-go-round in selections to search for backups for the backups with 10 tests to go. We either lock in our combinations now and hope to gel as a unit OR keep this rotation of selection going until the QF against SA or Ireland. Because it worked out fucking well in 2019.
While your point has some validity it is also throwing all the eggs in one basket and, as pointed out, those advocting this approach would also be first in the queue to complain about a lack of contingency panning.
Yes, we know DH's limitations and that he is second choice (at best). What we also need to do is play situations that adjust around those limitations in case he is called on. In other words, would you play the same plan with JB as DH?
Certainly decide if JB/RI is the first choice paring and give then plenty of time together. What @Victor-Meldrew was suggesting is that you also have to plan for things going wrong at the same time. Sometimes that may mean a start for someone else or a shuffle.@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I'm sick of these people on here claiming we need to find a second option to JB.
So your answer is not to bother about any back-ups at 12 and just play Jordie there and give bugger-all thought to managing his workload?
The only problem with that is what you do (apart from blaming Foster for being an idiot for not developing MF options) if/when Jordie gets injured.
Listen to yourself FFS. We have 10 tests or so. Potentially our greatest pairing had something like 30-40 in a partnership over 6 or 7 years to become O for awesome. Wats your suggestion? Keep playing alternative 12s for the next fucking 10 tests until we find JBs* back up? We don't have fucking time because Foster has been shit for the last 3 years. We're a year behind in our development. Ideally all this shit would have been sorted last year. It's fucking unbelievable you're still advocating for a merry-go-round in selections to search for backups for the backups with 10 tests to go. We either lock in our combinations now and hope to gel as a unit OR keep this rotation of selection going until the QF against SA or Ireland. Because it worked out fucking well in 2019.
While your point has some validity it is also throwing all the eggs in one basket and, as pointed out, those advocting this approach would also be first in the queue to complain about a lack of contingency panning.
Yes, we know DH's limitations and that he is second choice (at best). What we also need to do is play situations that adjust around those limitations in case he is called on. In other words, would you play the same plan with JB as DH?
Certainly decide if JB/RI is the first choice paring and give then plenty of time together. What @Victor-Meldrew was suggesting is that you also have to plan for things going wrong at the same time. Sometimes that may mean a start for someone else or a shuffle.We don't have time ffs. 10 tests. TEN is what we have between now and a QF exit. We had time in 2020 and 2021. Now we don't.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@MajorRage Agree re forwards but our set piece lost us quite a bit of territory and possession today which needs to be improved.
Against a fired up decent Scotland pack, I think they did ok.
Scotland at home isn't what it used to be. It's a real challenge now.
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@MajorRage Agree re forwards but our set piece lost us quite a bit of territory and possession today which needs to be improved.
Against a fired up decent Scotland pack, I think they did ok.
Scotland at home isn't what it used to be. It's a real challenge now.
To challenge this a little - Scotland at home in 2022:
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Lost NZ by 8
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Beat Fiji by 16
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Lost Oz by 1
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Lost France by 19
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Beat England by 3
So they won that 6N opener against England, plus Fiji at home?
I mean, no shame in losing to NZ or France at home, but the Wobblies are something like 3 from 27 this year...not sure the results show that these guys should be anything other than cannon fodder for us*
*ducks arrogant head for cover....
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
-
Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
-
Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
-
Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
Heres another stat. The played in 62 tests together. Do we have 62 tests between now and the QF?
I think we have 63. So plenty of time.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
-
Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
-
Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
-
Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
Heres another stat. The played in 62 tests together. Do we have 62 tests between now and the QF?
I think we have 6.3. So plenty of time.
Fixed.
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