Foster, Robertson etc
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If any of the board want Fozz to stay under any circumstance they should give themselves an uppercut
Depends on how well he does at RWC2023 (say, makes the final) and whether he wants to stay on, I guess.
That's where I support the Mariner's earlier post.
We've seen inter-RWC life under Fozzie and if there's ever something approaching a general consensus on the Fern, I think it's that the past 3 years have been a bit more shit than they needed to be.
If you're AB coach, I don't think you get to just cram for a six week exam at the end of your term and then all else is forgiven. Fozzie is not Ted in 2007, where we've dominated the world to the extent Stephen Jones has called for the RWC to be cancelled - now is the time to protect our future by being pro-active.
If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!
I'd prefer the AB Head Coach to be chosen on a number of factors, but definitely not on the basis of "If you don't give me the job, I'll go somewhere else".
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@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!
AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?
Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.
He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!
the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
he turned down chance to be an assistant and when told one reason was lack of experence coaching internationly he stayed at the crusaders
jaime joseph/tony brown/john mitchell to be next all black coachesAre you talking about in the professional era? It's only "the only way" until another way happens. I feel like there's been some coaches even in the professional era that fit neither of those "options".
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!
AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?
Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.
He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!
the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
he turned down chance to be an assistant and when told one reason was lack of experence coaching internationly he stayed at the crusaders
jaime joseph/tony brown/john mitchell to be next all black coachesAre you talking about in the professional era? It's only "the only way" until another way happens. I feel like there's been some coaches even in the professional era that fit neither of those "options".
true
i did say two best ways as is thats what normally happen
other side is if you dont follow the normal trails dont complain if dont get picked -
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!
I'd prefer the AB Head Coach to be chosen on a number of factors, but definitely not on the basis of "If you don't give me the job, I'll go somewhere else".
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!
I'd prefer the AB Head Coach to be chosen on a number of factors, but definitely not on the basis of "If you don't give me the job, I'll go somewhere else".
Well, last time, all our other options already had.
Razor at least stuck around to contest the position - as he has again.
We need to take learnings from our 2019 shambles!
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!
AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?
Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.
He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!
the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
he turned down chance to be an assistant and when told one reason was lack of experence coaching internationly he stayed at the crusaders
jaime joseph/tony brown/john mitchell to be next all black coaches@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!
AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?
Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.
He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!
the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
Come on down, John Plumtree!
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!
AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?
Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.
He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!
the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
he turned down chance to be an assistant and when told one reason was lack of experence coaching internationly he stayed at the crusaders
jaime joseph/tony brown/john mitchell to be next all black coaches@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
lack of experence coaching internationally
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Answer you don't, there has been plenty of successful International coaches who have taken jobs and had success with no International experience.
And plenty who have had international experience who have been shit one pretty close to home.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!
I'd prefer the AB Head Coach to be chosen on a number of factors, but definitely not on the basis of "If you don't give me the job, I'll go somewhere else".
Well, last time, all our other options already had.
Razor at least stuck around to contest the position - as he has again.
We need to take learnings from our 2019 shambles!
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!
I'd prefer the AB Head Coach to be chosen on a number of factors, but definitely not on the basis of "If you don't give me the job, I'll go somewhere else".
We need to take learnings from our 2019 shambles!
Oh. definitely, but let's not look back though. Just aim for the best man for the job and work from there. Bit pointless choosing a coach on the basis that he might go to another country as that's happened before.
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@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
lack of experence coaching internationally
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Answer you don't, there has been plenty of successful International coaches who have taken jobs and had success with no International experience.
And plenty who have had international experience who have been shit one pretty close to home.
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.Really? I thought I read here he was, but turned it down. Happy to stand corrected though.
But back to the original question, it's clear NZR have a dogma about international experience but he's made it equally clear it was Head Honcho or nothing and NZR seem to have an issue with that attitude. Perhaps he should have pushed for a Assistant role - that way he would have shown himself to be a team player (it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him) and meet the International experience criteria.
For whatever reason, he didn't, so we are where we are.
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.Really? I thought I read here he was, but turned it down. Happy to stand corrected though.
But back to the original question, it's clear NZR have a dogma about international experience but he's made it equally clear it was Head Honcho or nothing and NZR seem to have an issue with that attitude. Perhaps he should have pushed for a Assistant role - that way he would have shown himself to be a team player (it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him) and meet the International experience criteria.
For whatever reason, he didn't, so we are where we are.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
it's clear NZR have a dogma
Do they? Or is that just the perception? I wouldn't be confident to state they've said that's an official rule.
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.Really? I thought I read here he was, but turned it down. Happy to stand corrected though.
But back to the original question, it's clear NZR have a dogma about international experience but he's made it equally clear it was Head Honcho or nothing and NZR seem to have an issue with that attitude. Perhaps he should have pushed for a Assistant role - that way he would have shown himself to be a team player (it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him) and meet the International experience criteria.
For whatever reason, he didn't, so we are where we are.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
(it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him)
I don't think it was Robertson per se, but that he felt a loyalty to Foster.
Or have you read something else?
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.Really? I thought I read here he was, but turned it down. Happy to stand corrected though.
But back to the original question, it's clear NZR have a dogma about international experience but he's made it equally clear it was Head Honcho or nothing and NZR seem to have an issue with that attitude. Perhaps he should have pushed for a Assistant role - that way he would have shown himself to be a team player (it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him) and meet the International experience criteria.
For whatever reason, he didn't, so we are where we are.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.Really? I thought I read here he was, but turned it down. Happy to stand corrected though.
But back to the original question, it's clear NZR have a dogma about international experience but he's made it equally clear it was Head Honcho or nothing and NZR seem to have an issue with that attitude. Perhaps he should have pushed for a Assistant role - that way he would have shown himself to be a team player (it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him) and meet the International experience criteria.
For whatever reason, he didn't, so we are where we are.
Yeah 100% he was never offered an assistants Role.
Foster and his preferred coaches were a package.
Razor was not offered anything, NZR didn’t think putting the 2 men together after both applying for the same job was a good way to go forward. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
(it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him)
I don't think it was Robertson per se, but that he felt a loyalty to Foster.
Or have you read something else?
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
(it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him)
I don't think it was Robertson per se, but that he felt a loyalty to Foster.
Or have you read something else?
Exactly is was the loyalty to Foster.Which is fair enough at the time.
Razor and Joe get on well. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.Really? I thought I read here he was, but turned it down. Happy to stand corrected though.
But back to the original question, it's clear NZR have a dogma about international experience but he's made it equally clear it was Head Honcho or nothing and NZR seem to have an issue with that attitude. Perhaps he should have pushed for a Assistant role - that way he would have shown himself to be a team player (it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him) and meet the International experience criteria.
For whatever reason, he didn't, so we are where we are.
Yeah 100% he was never offered an assistants Role.
Foster and his preferred coaches were a package.
Razor was not offered anything, NZR didn’t think putting the 2 men together after both applying for the same job was a good way to go forward.@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Foster and his preferred coaches were a package.
As mentioned, I don't think NZR had a problem with packages. But probably did with Robertson's "here's my package, take it or leave it" approach - particularly when his international experience was both minimal and patchy.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
it's clear NZR have a dogma
Do they? Or is that just the perception? I wouldn't be confident to state they've said that's an official rule.
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
it's clear NZR have a dogma
Do they? Or is that just the perception? I wouldn't be confident to state they've said that's an official rule.
Not a written rule, but yeah, I think they do.
Which is fine as long as they have some sort of plan in place to develop good coaches. Which they don't appear to have.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
(it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him)
I don't think it was Robertson per se, but that he felt a loyalty to Foster.
Or have you read something else?
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
(it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him)
I don't think it was Robertson per se, but that he felt a loyalty to Foster.
Or have you read something else?
Regardless of the reason, Joe wouldn't have wanted to work with him.
Whether Schmidt would have said the same If Foster had been replaced by someone else other than Robertson, we'll never know.
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.Really? I thought I read here he was, but turned it down. Happy to stand corrected though.
But back to the original question, it's clear NZR have a dogma about international experience but he's made it equally clear it was Head Honcho or nothing and NZR seem to have an issue with that attitude. Perhaps he should have pushed for a Assistant role - that way he would have shown himself to be a team player (it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him) and meet the International experience criteria.
For whatever reason, he didn't, so we are where we are.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.
Probably why Robertson was offered an Assistant role.
I don’t believe he was, Where did that come from.
I have never heard that.
Adding to that I can 100% inform you he was never offered an Assistant role , You have just made that BS up.Really? I thought I read here he was, but turned it down. Happy to stand corrected though.
Yeah I was unaware of that and read it here somewhere as well , it was news to me, not that I probably follow it as closely as some
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@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!
AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?
Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.
He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!
AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?
Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.
He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!
Yep I'm telling you it not up to Robinson who coaches ABs. The buck stops with NZR board who tell Robison what to do. What's it got to do with who in SA, he was there in discussions with SARU,so why would Lendrum be there? Genuine question too. He wasn't with with ABs, obviously timed to go with tests etc. He (same as Steve Tew before, and Marinos in Aussie etc) have almost nothing to do with team.. Generally CEOs of rugby boards anywhere make very few decisions, of importance, and that goes from provincial unions right through. They are generally the ones who act on decisions made by elected board. As when Robinson and one ot two others had made suggestions how to fix Super rugby impass with Aussie , got back to NZR board squashed it.
In my experience in clubs and provincial rugby boards, the CEO has never appointed the coach, and generally don't even vote on board decisions, they act on what the board says.generally. -
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Foster and his preferred coaches were a package.
As mentioned, I don't think NZR had a problem with packages. But probably did with Robertson's "here's my package, take it or leave it" approach - particularly when his international experience was both minimal and patchy.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Foster and his preferred coaches were a package.
As mentioned, I don't think NZR had a problem with packages. But probably did with Robertson's "here's my package, take it or leave it" approach - particularly when his international experience was both minimal and patchy.
This sounds like one of the other assumptions that you've posted in this thread without it being based on evidence. I'd love to see a source where you base this assumption on.
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
(it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him)
I don't think it was Robertson per se, but that he felt a loyalty to Foster.
Or have you read something else?
Regardless of the reason, Joe wouldn't have wanted to work with him.
Whether Schmidt would have said the same If Foster had been replaced by someone else other than Robertson, we'll never know.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
(it's been reported Joe Schmidt has issues working with him)
I don't think it was Robertson per se, but that he felt a loyalty to Foster.
Or have you read something else?
Regardless of the reason, Joe wouldn't have wanted to work with him.
Whether Schmidt would have said the same If Foster had been replaced by someone else other than Robertson, we'll never know.
Source? Another assumption?
