Foster, Robertson etc
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im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Maybe, but he didn't win a title with the most deep Super squads ever, namely - 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.
Nadolo, Fruean, Slade, Tom Taylor, Blyeendaal, McCaw, Carter, Flynn, Bird, Laulala, 2 Whitelocks, among those who left after 2015.
2011 final 18/23 of Crusader's lineup were internationals, Marshall was only player in the starting 15 who wasn't an All Black.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Super_Rugby_Final#Match_details
2014 final was even more, 21/23 players named in final, only Jimmy Tupou & Ben Funnell on the bench weren't ever capped internationally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Super_Rugby_Final#Match_details
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Maybe, but he didn't win a title with the most deep Super squads ever, namely - 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.
Nadolo, Fruean, Slade, Tom Taylor, Blyeendaal, McCaw, Carter, Flynn, Bird, Laulala, 2 Whitelocks, among those who left after 2015.
2011 final 18/23 of Crusader's lineup were internationals, Marshall was only player in the starting 15 who wasn't an All Black.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Super_Rugby_Final#Match_details
2014 final was even more, 21/23 players named in final, only Jimmy Tupou & Ben Funnell on the bench weren't ever capped internationally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Super_Rugby_Final#Match_details
@kiwi_expat all fair points and i was quite careful to point out he was missing that last little bit needed....but
every team thats ever made a final thinks they have a chance to nicking it, no matter who theyre up against, because anything can happen in a final, people play above themselves etc
all i feel is there is somewhere between "world beater" and "should never coach again" and i think the expectations for the crusaders are just a bit higher than other teams
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im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Considering that sounds a lot like how the ABs are ATM, it is a good sign!
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Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who would actually like to see Foster continue?
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Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who would actually like to see Foster continue?
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who would actually like to see Foster continue?
There are actually a fair few...
oh and
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im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
This thread is the TSF equivalent of Burn After Reading ... Just not so witty.
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@Machpants at least 2 of those coaches won't be continuing after 2023.
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@Machpants at least 2 of those coaches won't be continuing after 2023.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants at least 2 of those coaches won't be continuing after 2023.
Killjoy
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im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Haha, not exactly champion, they finished 7th in the two seasons before Robertson took over.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Haha, not exactly champion, they finished 7th in the two seasons before Robertson took over.
@Asterik6 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Haha, not exactly champion, they finished 7th in the two seasons before
RobertsonRobertson's Assistants took over.I've fixed it for you, but if you read up the thread, Head Coaches don't have any impact on success and just are just a front for successful Assistants.
Oh hang on, that only works when Robertson isn't Head Coach....
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Don't know where else to post this:
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/18/time-is-right-all-blacks-mental-guru-enoka-leaving-after-rwc/
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Don't know where else to post this:
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/18/time-is-right-all-blacks-mental-guru-enoka-leaving-after-rwc/
@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Don't know where else to post this:
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/18/time-is-right-all-blacks-mental-guru-enoka-leaving-after-rwc/
Great servant. Got Richie and Co over the hump in 2011
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@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Don't know where else to post this:
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/18/time-is-right-all-blacks-mental-guru-enoka-leaving-after-rwc/
Great servant. Got Richie and Co over the hump in 2011
@canefan heard him speak last October, outstanding, a guy at my table said it was the 3rd time he had heard him speak, and each time, different, but equally excellent.
Said Wayne Smith, Richie among others as having a big influence on him too.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I agree
Gifford backing a Crusader. Colour me shocked.
Would be like Kirwan backing a Blue.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators. -
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators.@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators.Schmidt not mentioned as he is not running for coach, so why would you mention him? He's irrelevant
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators.Schmidt not mentioned as he is not running for coach, so why would you mention him? He's irrelevant
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators.Schmidt not mentioned as he is not running for coach, so why would you mention him? He's irrelevant
I'm sorry, I'm a bit off topic. Not meaning in terms of AB coach, just interested in whether his analysis is correct, that the best coaches are always innovators.
Seems intuitive, but sometimes people who carry on what is working well or who teaches basics and bring them back to a more unified game plan may be worth considering as coaches.
Might not seem relevant to ABS in the past, when usually other teams are trying to catch up but now it seems to me we are playing catch up AND seem to have lost some shine and robustness around basic skills.
So long story short, not sure looking at past AB coaching success is guaranteed 100% relevant here.
Innovation is good, but sometimes so is solid, robust discipline when the team is on the slide... -
@canefan heard him speak last October, outstanding, a guy at my table said it was the 3rd time he had heard him speak, and each time, different, but equally excellent.
Said Wayne Smith, Richie among others as having a big influence on him too.
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@canefan heard him speak last October, outstanding, a guy at my table said it was the 3rd time he had heard him speak, and each time, different, but equally excellent.
Said Wayne Smith, Richie among others as having a big influence on him too.
I think a lot of these sort of people fire off each other and you get magic happening in coaching set-ups.
A bit OT but a friends missus is a head teacher in Wales who heard Graham Henry speak at a few education events when he was there. Calls him probably the most inspiring educationalist she'd heard.
