Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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Better to upgrade officials so result changing clangers aren't dropped. Treat the cause not the effect.
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Better to upgrade officials so result changing clangers aren't dropped. Treat the cause not the effect.
Wow, that's a really poor response. Criticising a referee if you disagree with his decisions is one thing; abusing him and threatening him (which is what has happened) is totally unacceptable and I can't believe that you're condoning it. Referee abuse is a major reason for the declining numbers of referees, particularly in grassroots rugby. Without them, there's no game to play or watch.
The cause of the abusive behaviour is not the officials making a few mistakes; the cause is entirely within the abusive persons, who've lost their sense of what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. If you want to treat the cause, then these abusive people are the ones who should be "upgraded", so the abuse no longer happens and bad examples are no longer set to children and young people, who may copy that bad behaviour.
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@Stargazer I don't support refs being abused. But in many walks of life a person who made a mistake with the massive consequences of Saturday's would be summarily dismissed. It's a professional game now.
NZRU ought to be investigating how to avoid a recurrence.
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I didn't realise Cane never fronted the press conference afterwards. Appears pretty gutless unless he had genuine reason to skip it.
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I didn't realise Cane never fronted the press conference afterwards. Appears pretty gutless unless he had genuine reason to skip it.
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Good on NZR for standing up for the officials from some pathetic,Bitter twisted people we don’t need these sort of people involved in rugby setting kids a great example ,Do they do this shit at their kids games .
They make me sick the gutless fluffybunnies.@Chris Absolutely feral. Get a hobby, or something better to do. If you really want to make a change get involved with your union. Though it'd be best not to announce yourself with a conspiracy theory about refs. Unless you have completely convincing evidence of some kind of favourite team advantage. Probably not the kind of thing that is presented in Instagram comments ...
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@Stargazer I don't support refs being abused. But in many walks of life a person who made a mistake with the massive consequences of Saturday's would be summarily dismissed. It's a professional game now.
NZRU ought to be investigating how to avoid a recurrence.
@pakman I don't think you can compare what a ref does into the business world.
Where you have 30 grown men you are trying to keep in line, while they are all trying to push the limits, and will make errors as well, not to mention you have 3 others trying to help you too, and you are saying he should be sacked because of an error that he and 3 other officials missed?
Should ALB be similarly sacked for his error? That was quite important and could well have swung the pendulum to the Crusaders victory.
Usually only lose your job on the spot through gross negligence, which mean you think they weren't errors, they were deliberate actions, as in he cheated?
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@pakman I don't think you can compare what a ref does into the business world.
Where you have 30 grown men you are trying to keep in line, while they are all trying to push the limits, and will make errors as well, not to mention you have 3 others trying to help you too, and you are saying he should be sacked because of an error that he and 3 other officials missed?
Should ALB be similarly sacked for his error? That was quite important and could well have swung the pendulum to the Crusaders victory.
Usually only lose your job on the spot through gross negligence, which mean you think they weren't errors, they were deliberate actions, as in he cheated?
@taniwharugby said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman I don't think you can compare what a ref does into the business world.
Where you have 30 grown men you are trying to keep in line, while they are all trying to push the limits, not to mention you have 3 others trying to help you too, and you are saying he should be sacked because of an error that he and 3 other officials missed?
Should ALB be similarly sacked for his error? That was quite important and could well have swung the pendulum to the Crusaders victory.
Usually only lose your job on the spot through gross negligence, which mean you think they weren't errors, they were deliberate actions, as in he cheated?
I'm not actually gunning for BOK.
But sport is now business. We have two touchies aided by technology to try and improve the game.
Pre technology the second Narawa try stands and Chiefs win going away. Maybe ALB doesn't see yellow even.
If we embrace technology in the professional era we need to ensure the results of games aren't reversed through ropey application.We know from the technology that the Mo'unga try was bogus. One can try and cite various protocols to explain things away, but the plain fact remains that between two touchies and the TMO watching real time, even though BOK missed it, the system ought to have tipped him off and the scrum Chiefs been awarded.
As a business, NZRU need to look into why the error occurred and what can be changed going forward to ensure such errors don't recur.
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Sam Cane being a has been shithouse player, who would not be in any other tier one XV, was one of the main reasons that the Chiefs lost.
ABs go out in the QF, and the main reason is loser Cane is preferred over a vastly better player at international level for the last two years - Papalii.
What tier one team would Cane start for? None. He is shit.
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Some people not exactly covering themselves in glory following this game. My memory is as selective as everyone else's but I cannot recall such a bitter and twisted aftermath from a local NZ game.
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Sam Cane being a has been shithouse player, who would not be in any other tier one XV, was one of the main reasons that the Chiefs lost.
ABs go out in the QF, and the main reason is loser Cane is preferred over a vastly better player at international level for the last two years - Papalii.
What tier one team would Cane start for? None. He is shit.
@Tim said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Sam Cane being a has been shithouse player, who would not be in any other tier one XV, was one of the main reasons that the Chiefs lost.
ABs go out in the QF, and the main reason is loser Cane is preferred over a vastly better player at international level for the last two years - Papalii.
What tier one team would Cane start for? None. He is shit.
Your opinion I know (and no problem with it), but if I was selecting Cane would be starting everyday of the week for ABs. But then again I think Papalii is pretty good, just what I prefer at test level is someone who tackles all day, gets off ground as quick as and stays involved in game etc.
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@taniwharugby said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman I don't think you can compare what a ref does into the business world.
Where you have 30 grown men you are trying to keep in line, while they are all trying to push the limits, not to mention you have 3 others trying to help you too, and you are saying he should be sacked because of an error that he and 3 other officials missed?
Should ALB be similarly sacked for his error? That was quite important and could well have swung the pendulum to the Crusaders victory.
Usually only lose your job on the spot through gross negligence, which mean you think they weren't errors, they were deliberate actions, as in he cheated?
I'm not actually gunning for BOK.
But sport is now business. We have two touchies aided by technology to try and improve the game.
Pre technology the second Narawa try stands and Chiefs win going away. Maybe ALB doesn't see yellow even.
If we embrace technology in the professional era we need to ensure the results of games aren't reversed through ropey application.We know from the technology that the Mo'unga try was bogus. One can try and cite various protocols to explain things away, but the plain fact remains that between two touchies and the TMO watching real time, even though BOK missed it, the system ought to have tipped him off and the scrum Chiefs been awarded.
As a business, NZRU need to look into why the error occurred and what can be changed going forward to ensure such errors don't recur.
@pakman the more you post the sweeter the victory is.
Forget the NZRU looking into anything, the Chiefs need to have a full on review on whoever made the decision to go for that penalty kick from beyond half way. On a night when the conditions were not going to give the kicker any love it seemed a very poor and low percentage decision.
Was it because they didn’t trust their set piece? (Lineout risk)
Was it because DMac thought I did it last week why not tonight? (Different conditions)That penalty gave Chiefs some needed momentum, but the decision to kick for goal IMO took that momentum away.
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Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
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@Steven-Harris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Thought Chiefs supporters were better than that.
Big call there.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Thought Chiefs supporters were better than that.
Big call there.
Can't up-vote that but it is a pretty funny delivery:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
The reaction to this game is bizarre. McMillian's comments after the game were also fairly borderline. Asked about the refs, he said look at the crowd's reaction (booing at ceremony), that shows you something or words to that effect. Pretty poor all round really. -
Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
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I really want the Chiefs to win because if they don’t the whinging about the ref and blaming others will be unbearable….
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I really want the Chiefs to win because if they don’t the whinging about the ref and blaming others will be unbearable….
I think you won the thread.
If only the mighty Chiefs had been able to cope with a scrum to them on the halfway being converted to a lineout to us on the halfway, the way we coped with ALB taking out our All Black wing and not being red carded...
We would have been thrashed, I tell you - thrashed!!!
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I think the ref abuse is crap, but anyone thinking it only Chiefs fans that are idiots have short memories. Ask Wayne Barnes! Asl Rayanal etc etc, see we live in this virtual world where it is considered ok to abuse officials, administrators and players. Too f***en many from wherever in world are gutless wonders who hide behind keyboards or in crowds. Christ I sat at tests for a couple of years when Quade Cooper was the subject of booing etc, I never had a problem telling the ones around me that did it I thought it was crap etc, got the odd comment bac but normally just nothing!
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I think the ref abuse is crap, but anyone thinking it only Chiefs fans that are idiots have short memories. Ask Wayne Barnes! Asl Rayanal etc etc, see we live in this virtual world where it is considered ok to abuse officials, administrators and players. Too f***en many from wherever in world are gutless wonders who hide behind keyboards or in crowds. Christ I sat at tests for a couple of years when Quade Cooper was the subject of booing etc, I never had a problem telling the ones around me that did it I thought it was crap etc, got the odd comment bac but normally just nothing!
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It's a most interesting phenomenon on rugby threads should there be a tight game with debatable refereeing decisions.
The team on the winning side immediately leap to the refs defense, the system, the application, the standard are all perfect and the people saying otherwise are just sore losers.
And on the other side of course the entire system is broken in terms of blatant favoritism and needs urgent review.
The ironical part is that when the situation is reversed those who not long ago leapt to the defense of the referees and all systems involved upon their team losing descend upon them with the exact same ire the "sore losers" displayed previously. And all the "sore losers" then leap to the defense of the referee and all system involved as once again being perfect.
We all know the truth lies somewhere in the middle and neither side really does themselves any favors. With such attitudes all debate is rendered useless as the "side your on" depends entirety on the outcome of the game and nothing to do at all with the actual quality of the refs/refereeing systems performance.
It's ridiculous to expect that the ref does not have an influence on the game.
It's equally ridiculous to expect that we will ever make a perfect system - unless we do away with refs entirely and use robots to do it.
The "rub of the green" is one of those intangibles in sport that we know has an effect on the game but you can't control it on the day. One day you will get the 50/50 calls, the other you wont. You hope over time it simply balances out. It's all part of sport which makes it unpredictable and interesting and results in upsets we might not otherwise predict.
