All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham
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Not the be all and end all but playing with 7 Forwards against the Boks forward pack did not help it made the Job a lot tougher, that was One of many factors.
Both hookers could not throw straight.
We couldn't hold there scrum with 7 forwards
Passive clean outs at ruck and maul time Scott Barrett really the only one who did that and he missed his target and got carded.
Lack of aggression in our carries.
Our Captain looked shell shocked.We look like we were going though the motions to be honest, a real lack of intent,I have seen that before during the last 3 years.
Agree with all of that
In general I just don't think our pack is that good. It's competitive but we struggle when the game is dragged into an arm wrestle. We only have one style of play
I think the core problem is SR. The game is refereed differently at that level therefore what works at that level doesn't always apply to Test level.
For instance one of the higher rated forwards in NZ almost never enters through the gate. In SR the attacking team is given so much leeway so he never gets called. When he's in the Test side he concedes a lot of penalties and NZ fans complain about pedantic refs
The positives of SR are there too. If we do manage to get quick ball we play pretty rugby and run away with matches. It's just a lot harder to get quick ball because of the higher quality opposition and refs that enforce the laws
At least it's a long tournament so we might be able to adjust. Otherwise it will be feast or famine from week to week. As it has been for years
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Agree with all of that
In general I just don't think our pack is that good. It's competitive but we struggle when the game is dragged into an arm wrestle. We only have one style of play
I think the core problem is SR. The game is refereed differently at that level therefore what works at that level doesn't always apply to Test level.
For instance one of the higher rated forwards in NZ almost never enters through the gate. In SR the attacking team is given so much leeway so he never gets called. When he's in the Test side he concedes a lot of penalties and NZ fans complain about pedantic refs
The positives of SR are there too. If we do manage to get quick ball we play pretty rugby and run away with matches. It's just a lot harder to get quick ball because of the higher quality opposition and refs that enforce the laws
At least it's a long tournament so we might be able to adjust. Otherwise it will be feast or famine from week to week. As it has been for years
Yep spot on,We are not conditioned for that hard Grind arm wrestle type game.
SR has to change then but I can not see that happening.
Maybe a global Club championship may help some what, even it is only 2 or 3 of our SR teams qualify for it. -
We’re in a bit of a bind, then. We stuck in an ever narrowing competition with Australia, which needs pretty, free-flowing rugby with lots of tries to compete in a crowded winter sports market. Northern Hemisphere-style grindfests, with the referee blowing the pea out of the whistle, won’t sell in this television dominated market. And without the South African teams offering a point of difference anymore, the NZ teams are locked into that style. The Silver Lake cash will run out eventually and in the meantime the brand will be gradually destroyed. But in the nature of private equity investment, they will extract every drop of remaining value before they inevitably pull out. Sad, but true.
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Yep spot on,We are not conditioned for that hard Grind arm wrestle type game.
SR has to change then but I can not see that happening.
Maybe a global Club championship may help some what, even it is only 2 or 3 of our SR teams qualify for it.Mix up the refs. Some NH ones come down, we send some of ours north for a few weeks
5 teams run from the top down doesn’t encourage innovation. It’s great if the style being imposed from the top is the right choice
More independence for the SR sides would be good. Let’s have a NZ team playing like the Boks
Maybe more than 5 teams too…
Getting way off topic now
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Agree with all of that
In general I just don't think our pack is that good. It's competitive but we struggle when the game is dragged into an arm wrestle. We only have one style of play
I think the core problem is SR. The game is refereed differently at that level therefore what works at that level doesn't always apply to Test level.
For instance one of the higher rated forwards in NZ almost never enters through the gate. In SR the attacking team is given so much leeway so he never gets called. When he's in the Test side he concedes a lot of penalties and NZ fans complain about pedantic refs
The positives of SR are there too. If we do manage to get quick ball we play pretty rugby and run away with matches. It's just a lot harder to get quick ball because of the higher quality opposition and refs that enforce the laws
At least it's a long tournament so we might be able to adjust. Otherwise it will be feast or famine from week to week. As it has been for years
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
For instance one of the higher rated forwards in NZ almost never enters through the gate. In SR the attacking team is given so much leeway so he never gets called. When he's in the Test side he concedes a lot of penalties and NZ fans complain about pedantic refs
Who are you talking about there?
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Gregor Paul has a go at over-zealous officiating.
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Plenty of things can go wrong by agreeing to play our biggest nemesis as a warm up match. Or go right, if you get it right.... But we didn't get this one right
Still prone to brain snaps under pressure
Roigard probably best number two, but will sit behind the ginger unless injury occurs.
Hoping Lomax heals quickly from that nasty gash, wonder if he will be called hermy in camp?
Is the balance of the squad right? Still not sure.A timely reminder you're only as good as your last game and players need to keep their head in the game, just can they correct it in time?. We all know that they can, but we have also seen at times they tend to double down on stupid plays even when they know they shouldn't.
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Plenty of things can go wrong by agreeing to play our biggest nemesis as a warm up match. Or go right, if you get it right.... But we didn't get this one right
Still prone to brain snaps under pressure
Roigard probably best number two, but will sit behind the ginger unless injury occurs.
Hoping Lomax heals quickly from that nasty gash, wonder if he will be called hermy in camp?
Is the balance of the squad right? Still not sure.A timely reminder you're only as good as your last game and players need to keep their head in the game, just can they correct it in time?. We all know that they can, but we have also seen at times they tend to double down on stupid plays even when they know they shouldn't.
@bayimports said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Roigard probably best number two, but will sit behind the ginger unless injury occurs.
Even Foster isn't that dumb - is he?
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I think a lot has to do with what the referee focuses on early and we are caught out by starting with what works in super rugby when others play NH style with an NH ref.
The slowing down of the game and the cunning way the Boks played the ref meant that we hardly got a look in by trying super rugby tactics.I thought our defence under the constant pressure was very good indeed. Missing an easy penalty would have been a confidence drainer as would yielding intercepts to retreating players.
I wonder if Will Jordan could run closer to inside players to make it harder for defenders to disrupt our chain moves?Looks to me like squad balance is very wrong now. Telea is a lock in with his tackle breaking ability. And we may need a bench player who has strong clearing kicks much more than another power winger.
Far more need for another 6 or lock or both now. Unless we address this I can see France Boks and Ireland with a 6 2 bench against overpowering us.
Maybe we will have learned enough from this loss to make some radical changes needed for the challenges ahead. I hope so. -
And we hadn't played for a month, whereas the Boks had a game last week to get the rust out
@canefan which came down to the coaches. The had the opportunity to play the same squad from SA-Wobs-SA but didn't. They phucked around on the EOYT last year and almost lost to Japan and Scotland.
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RasNaber have created a nice to have problem with player depth in their squad. The new generation of players look like passing the 2019 WC group. Willemse vs Willie, KLA and Moodie vs Kolbey and Mapimpi, AE and Moodie/Kriel vs Am and Ellendig, Libbok vs Pollard, Faf vs Hendricks, Vermeulen vs Wiese, Kwagga vs PST, Etsebeth and Mostert vs Snyman and Kleyn, Malherbe vs Koch, Marx vs Bongi and Kitshoff vs Ox. Then they have third options who can make most country teams.
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Gregor Paul has a go at over-zealous officiating.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Gregor Paul has a go at over-zealous officiating.
Would you like some cheese with your whine Gregor?
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@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Gregor Paul has a go at over-zealous officiating.
Would you like some cheese with your whine Gregor?
@MiketheSnow he has clicks to collect.
When does the RWC start? Man this thread is gonna take a thrashing!
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@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Dan54 My thoughts too. I knew a pasting was coming while watching the anthems. They weren’t up for this at all. And the Springboks clearly were. Mindset, attitude and mental strength are still the key underlying problems, which gets back to my earlier post about the Foster effect. I think he wants to be everyone’s mate, which is fatal for a head coach.
Ties in with my post below.
Too nice to his squad....Waaaaay too nice to refs both in the build up to and after games. Be magnanimous sure, but we are being led a merry dance by the Rassies, Farrells, Sextons and Eddie Jones of the world.
From the social media account right up to the head coach, we have had 6 or 7 years of sniffing our own farts and falling over ourselves to be the good guys on and off the pitch. Rassies video whether you like it or not, turned that Lions series. Simple things like mentioning how Kolisi was not afforded the same audience with the ref as the opposition captain.
The Mako Vunipola smash on Barrett in the same game as the SBW red in 2017 (with differing sanctions) followed by the "we have a deal" Garces special the following week and the resultant shoulder shrugs from our leaders and coaches showed the seeds had been sewn. We went from a team with a 100 year invisibility cloak on, to one who gets carded more than everyone else in the space of a few years up to and including the Taa'vao/Andrew Porter fiasco which again resulted in another bungled home series. And Foster still had nothing to say.
We have turned the other cheek on and off the pitch for too long.
The coaching should be ruthless and the players should be ruthless. Mark Robinson similarly showed a lack of ruthlessness. Kite flying and taking the temperature of the nation before making decisions. Sack him or back him.
@Steve Great post.
Something went wrong with the side’s identity after McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Woodcock and Mealamu retired and we went all Disney in the off season of 2016-7. And they have struggled to recapture a hard nosed ruthless edge since.
PR photos from last week of them grinning like idiots on the Ted Lasso bench had me worrying about the mindset ahead of a physical struggle with the Boks.
We’ve become far too nice, something you would never have said about Sean Fitzpatrick, Buck Shelford and co.
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Gregor Paul has a go at over-zealous officiating.
@His-Bobness For me the worry is that some of the officiating this weekend has been zealous, some of it has been laissez-faire.
Sides that can adapt from the start to different refereeing styles will be at a huge advantage in the RWC. South Africa are helped by having players in their squad who play in lots of different domestic competitions around the world and some of their squad have played club or provincial rugby in several countries.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
And he can't own up when his team puts what is objectively the worst performance ever in black
Utter fucking nonsense.
So a28 point loss isn't objectively the worst ever? Carry on in your dream world. He at no point in the interview admits anything but good learnings. Not 'we didn't prepare well enough' nor 'the tactics weren't quite right' doing shitty little kicks in our 22.Just we will learn. Except they don't and haven't over the last 6 odd years
Losing to Munster 12-0 in 78 is the worst ever…
No it's not, I well remember a real spanking against Sydney 17 - 40 at Penrith in 1992 that was the ultimate pits. That's the same year we had an unbeaten tour of Sth Africa!
@Higgins said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
And he can't own up when his team puts what is objectively the worst performance ever in black
Utter fucking nonsense.
So a28 point loss isn't objectively the worst ever? Carry on in your dream world. He at no point in the interview admits anything but good learnings. Not 'we didn't prepare well enough' nor 'the tactics weren't quite right' doing shitty little kicks in our 22.Just we will learn. Except they don't and haven't over the last 6 odd years
Losing to Munster 12-0 in 78 is the worst ever…
No it's not, I well remember a real spanking against Sydney 17 - 40 at Penrith in 1992 that was the ultimate pits. That's the same year we had an unbeaten tour of Sth Africa!
That NSW side was basically the Wallabies other than about 3 players. And I think the margin was bigger than that!
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@His-Bobness For me the worry is that some of the officiating this weekend has been zealous, some of it has been laissez-faire.
Sides that can adapt from the start to different refereeing styles will be at a huge advantage in the RWC. South Africa are helped by having players in their squad who play in lots of different domestic competitions around the world and some of their squad have played club or provincial rugby in several countries.
@sparky well our teams play in the URC and HC. The first half a season of URC was a nightmare and all the teams was at the bottom. The URC plays a massive role in our players development. Not only our teams but also our players in the opposition like our Munster lock pair and Vermeulen.
Regarding Foster Mr nice guy, compare him to Rassie the guy everybody hates who can think out of the box.
