All Blacks 2023
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
As much as I hate wishing injury on a player, I think our only chance of getting past the QF stage is for Christie and Beauden to get injured. Injury has been the greatest selector over the last 4 years under Foster and one can only hope that it will help us again over the next few weeks.
With all due respect, Ginga and BB could both die in tragic cheese and/or baguette related accidents tommorrow and it probably won't change a thing. The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
At least Roigard off the bench and Jordan at fullback will give us a bit more punch on attack. Even with those changes we only have a low to moderate chance of winning our QF, and that's only if we get Ireland. We have no chance of beating the Boks.
It would be arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic IMHO. The place we need more punch is in the forwards.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
As much as I hate wishing injury on a player, I think our only chance of getting past the QF stage is for Christie and Beauden to get injured. Injury has been the greatest selector over the last 4 years under Foster and one can only hope that it will help us again over the next few weeks.
With all due respect, Ginga and BB could both die in tragic cheese and/or baguette related accidents tommorrow and it probably won't change a thing. The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
At least Roigard off the bench and Jordan at fullback will give us a bit more punch on attack. Even with those changes we only have a low to moderate chance of winning our QF, and that's only if we get Ireland. We have no chance of beating the Boks.
It would be arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic IMHO. The place we need more punch is in the forwards.
But, we should get that with the return of Lomax, Retallick, Frizell, Cane - and probably Blackadder.
de Groot, Taylor, Lomax
Retallick, Barrett
Frizell, Cane
SaveaSami T., Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Whitelock, Blackadder.
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Removing BB from 15 may do two things
Get a possibly better FB in there (i say maybe because there is no evidence he's actually better at test level)
Get BB out of the fucking way and let RM run the side, which just might give some clarity to proceedings, with one guy in charge.Of course we don't know if RM can run it all himself, and we don't know if Jordan is actually a better test FB. And the change in approach of that size would be enormous for a QF.
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
As much as I hate wishing injury on a player, I think our only chance of getting past the QF stage is for Christie and Beauden to get injured. Injury has been the greatest selector over the last 4 years under Foster and one can only hope that it will help us again over the next few weeks.
With all due respect, Ginga and BB could both die in tragic cheese and/or baguette related accidents tommorrow and it probably won't change a thing. The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
Maybe, but 9 is key to our play, and the 15 is a part-time 10-I think these positions are crucial and (at least on attack) the daylight between our best 9 and 15* and the second best is Nordic arctic summer strength.
*If you agree with me BB is not the best 15.
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I would rather do it drop Barrett and put Jordan to FB than serve up the same dross in the QF then wonder if it would have improved things, nothing to lose as I see it.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
I would rather do it drop Barrett and put Jordan to FB than serve up the same dross in the QF then wonder if it would have improved things, nothing to lose as I see it.
Seconded, I am all for a new form of dross!
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
I would rather do it drop Barrett and put Jordan to FB than serve up the same dross in the QF then wonder if it would have improved things, nothing to lose as I see it.
Seconded, I am all for a new form of dross!
@nostrildamus
Some different dross can be better than the current dross,Not all dross is the same. -
@nostrildamus
Some different dross can be better than the current dross,Not all dross is the same. -
@Chris Perhaps they can rename themselves the ‘All Dross’ and replace the haka with a rendition of The Bus Stop?
I like it
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
Maybe, but 9 is key to our play, and the 15 is a part-time 10-I think these positions are crucial and (at least on attack) the daylight between our best 9 and 15* and the second best is Nordic arctic summer strength.
*If you agree with me BB is not the best 15.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
Maybe, but 9 is key to our play, and the 15 is a part-time 10-I think these positions are crucial and (at least on attack) the daylight between our best 9 and 15* and the second best is Nordic arctic summer strength.
*If you agree with me BB is not the best 15.
Again, ditch BB for Jordan and Redhaired Abomination for CR and do you reckon it would make much difference last weekend? RM has also been allowed to be sole playmaker in some tests and that also made no difference. Although I don't think he's been 10 with Jordan at 15.
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@nostrildamus
Some different dross can be better than the current dross,Not all dross is the same.@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus
Some different dross can be better than the current dross,Not all dross is the same.Oh I meant it, any other dross is preferable to this learnings slop! I was just thinking this morning if the ABs XV led by DMac coached by Razor played the ABs last lineup led by Foster-who would win...probably the ABs in the forwards ..but overall?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2023:
The issues run much deeper and wider than just the 15 and reserve 9.
Maybe, but 9 is key to our play, and the 15 is a part-time 10-I think these positions are crucial and (at least on attack) the daylight between our best 9 and 15* and the second best is Nordic arctic summer strength.
*If you agree with me BB is not the best 15.
Again, ditch BB for Jordan and Redhaired Abomination for CR and do you reckon it would make much difference last weekend? RM has also been allowed to be sole playmaker in some tests and that also made no difference. Although I don't think he's been 10 with Jordan at 15.
@Rancid-Schnitzel Moving Jordan to FB also brings Leicester into the 15, and he offers more punch around the rucks than most of our forwards do.
I don't know, I'm just desperate for something to change as the current formula is not working.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2023:
If he pulls all that off - silences doubters like me - and coaches the ABs to win the whole thing, he may justly claim Wayne Smith’s title as Uber Professor of Rugby.
how?! how can people be so willing for forget all the other shit, surely if he was to win the whole thing is more of a fluke, the weird draw/seeding and probably some individual moment of brilliance scaping home...hardly anything he's actually done, his whole game plan is kind of "dont have agame plan, vibe it out on the pitch"
I was joking.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks 2023:
If he pulls all that off - silences doubters like me - and coaches the ABs to win the whole thing, he may justly claim Wayne Smith’s title as Uber Professor of Rugby.
how?! how can people be so willing for forget all the other shit, surely if he was to win the whole thing is more of a fluke, the weird draw/seeding and probably some individual moment of brilliance scaping home...hardly anything he's actually done, his whole game plan is kind of "dont have agame plan, vibe it out on the pitch"
I was joking.
apologies, have seen it said with a straight face byt others and i just find it amazing
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Those expecting/hoping for significant change are in for disappointment. Chris's excellent latin saying is on the money. BB will play fullback, and do 60% of the first receiver stuff. The first choice we al identified months ago will play injury-permitting. We're going out at the quarter, and we can close this shitshow out.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
Those expecting/hoping for significant change are in for disappointment. Chris's excellent latin saying is on the money. BB will play fullback, and do 60% of the first receiver stuff. The first choice we al identified months ago will play injury-permitting. We're going out at the quarter, and we can close this shitshow out.
I think that is one of the bigger problems we have....he shouldn't be anywhere near the 1st receiver ... considering his preference for low percentage plays and shitty kicks.....I really feel it damages the ability of Mounga (or Dmac) controlling the game ..
My preference for him would be reserve orange peeler...but if he must play..
Play a traditional 15 role instead of the hybrid 10/15 shite we constantly get. -
Removing BB from 15 may do two things
Get a possibly better FB in there (i say maybe because there is no evidence he's actually better at test level)
Get BB out of the fucking way and let RM run the side, which just might give some clarity to proceedings, with one guy in charge.Of course we don't know if RM can run it all himself, and we don't know if Jordan is actually a better test FB. And the change in approach of that size would be enormous for a QF.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
Removing BB from 15 may do two things
Get a possibly better FB in there (i say maybe because there is no evidence he's actually better at test level)
Get BB out of the fucking way and let RM run the side, which just might give some clarity to proceedings, with one guy in charge.Of course we don't know if RM can run it all himself, and we don't know if Jordan is actually a better test FB. And the change in approach of that size would be enormous for a QF.
i would be slightly reassured thought that its not a combination that they have formed in the AB's, theyre not two players from different super teams, RM was the one making a lot of the passes that Jordan burst onto in that highlight video
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Moving Jordan to FB also brings Leicester into the 15, and he offers more punch around the rucks than most of our forwards do.
I don't know, I'm just desperate for something to change as the current formula is not working.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Moving Jordan to FB also brings Leicester into the 15, and he offers more punch around the rucks than most of our forwards do.
I don't know, I'm just desperate for something to change as the current formula is not working.
but leicester turns like a old tug on defence
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BB is playing the gameplan... Will Jordan's big weakness is kicking and people want to play him at fullback? I don't follow. The modern-day game is one in the air, by working good competitive kicks, and kicking well for territory.
The hatred towards Barrett these days is a little bit bizarre. People are holding him up to unrealistic standards, watch that game without any knowledge of that New Zealand side, and I'm not really sure you'd come away with fullback as being the big issue.
Lack of punch from the bench, and the majority of our starting forwards, and a poor game from Will Jordan rate is far bigger issues for mine.
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BB is playing the gameplan... Will Jordan's big weakness is kicking and people want to play him at fullback? I don't follow. The modern-day game is one in the air, by working good competitive kicks, and kicking well for territory.
The hatred towards Barrett these days is a little bit bizarre. People are holding him up to unrealistic standards, watch that game without any knowledge of that New Zealand side, and I'm not really sure you'd come away with fullback as being the big issue.
Lack of punch from the bench, and the majority of our starting forwards, and a poor game from Will Jordan rate is far bigger issues for mine.
@frugby but BB is kicking poorly (the worldy on the weekend being the exception)
for me its straight forward, to get the ball to our weapons at 11,13,14 it needs to go through a second Boss which is normally the 15, 9 > 10 > 12 > 13 > 11/14 just doesnt work against the rush defence....but when we go through BB either of 9 or 10....he kicks it. I would like to see the 15 actually inject himself and either draw a defender before unleashing other....or if he times it right breaking the line
I feel Jordan is more likely to do that than BB
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@frugby but BB is kicking poorly (the worldy on the weekend being the exception)
for me its straight forward, to get the ball to our weapons at 11,13,14 it needs to go through a second Boss which is normally the 15, 9 > 10 > 12 > 13 > 11/14 just doesnt work against the rush defence....but when we go through BB either of 9 or 10....he kicks it. I would like to see the 15 actually inject himself and either draw a defender before unleashing other....or if he times it right breaking the line
I feel Jordan is more likely to do that than BB
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby but BB is kicking poorly (the worldy on the weekend being the exception)
for me its straight forward, to get the ball to our weapons at 11,13,14 it needs to go through a second Boss which is normally the 15, 9 > 10 > 12 > 13 > 11/14 just doesnt work against the rust defence....but when we go through BB either of 9 or 10....he kicks it. I would like to see the 15 actually inject himself and either draw a defender before unleashing other....or if he times it right breaking the line
I feel Jordan is more likely to do that than BB
You can debate the first point if you want, personally I think his general range kicking was actually fairly good, and was something noted at the time.
With your second point, your basically just saying you don't like Foster's tactics with ball in hand, and you'd like to see us do something different. If Beauden Barrett wasn't following the gameplan, contrary to popular belief, he'd have been dropped. If the coaches didn't want him to do the chip kicks, he'd stop doing them, or he wouldn't be playing.
Barrett (and to a lesser extent Mo'unga) have just become the fall guys for when the All Blacks attack goes wrong.
IMO, the only time this year, where the players have not successfully carried out the attacking gameplan in the eyes of the coaches, was DMac in Dunedin, hence he was subbed after about 50 minutes...
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby but BB is kicking poorly (the worldy on the weekend being the exception)
for me its straight forward, to get the ball to our weapons at 11,13,14 it needs to go through a second Boss which is normally the 15, 9 > 10 > 12 > 13 > 11/14 just doesnt work against the rust defence....but when we go through BB either of 9 or 10....he kicks it. I would like to see the 15 actually inject himself and either draw a defender before unleashing other....or if he times it right breaking the line
I feel Jordan is more likely to do that than BB
You can debate the first point if you want, personally I think his general range kicking was actually fairly good, and was something noted at the time.
With your second point, your basically just saying you don't like Foster's tactics with ball in hand, and you'd like to see us do something different. If Beauden Barrett wasn't following the gameplan, contrary to popular belief, he'd have been dropped. If the coaches didn't want him to do the chip kicks, he'd stop doing them, or he wouldn't be playing.
Barrett (and to a lesser extent Mo'unga) have just become the fall guys for when the All Blacks attack goes wrong.
IMO, the only time this year, where the players have not successfully carried out the attacking gameplan in the eyes of the coaches, was DMac in Dunedin, hence he was subbed after about 50 minutes...
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Moving Jordan to FB also brings Leicester into the 15, and he offers more punch around the rucks than most of our forwards do.
I don't know, I'm just desperate for something to change as the current formula is not working.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Moving Jordan to FB also brings Leicester into the 15, and he offers more punch around the rucks than most of our forwards do.
I don't know, I'm just desperate for something to change as the current formula is not working.
that's a pretty good point. we need more guys who can punch it up, because we lack that in our unbalanced forward pack, and telea and jordan don't offer it.
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BB is playing the gameplan... Will Jordan's big weakness is kicking and people want to play him at fullback? I don't follow. The modern-day game is one in the air, by working good competitive kicks, and kicking well for territory.
The hatred towards Barrett these days is a little bit bizarre. People are holding him up to unrealistic standards, watch that game without any knowledge of that New Zealand side, and I'm not really sure you'd come away with fullback as being the big issue.
Lack of punch from the bench, and the majority of our starting forwards, and a poor game from Will Jordan rate is far bigger issues for mine.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
watch that game without any knowledge of that New Zealand side, and I'm not really sure you'd come away with fullback as being the big issue.
pretty sure the majority of the second half is just talk about how bad he was playing
that and the fact 15 is one of the positions we havent changed much over the last several years, my example above explains in a very simple way how the 15 unleashes the 11,13,14.....and the fact we've been saying for several years our wings aren't being put in space....it doesnt seem like rocket surgery to suggest we try the form super rugby 15 there
