RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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So had a Sunday session with some mates (half Kiwis half not giving a shit about rugby Aussies and foreigners) and was a good way to wind down.
Except, I made the silly mistake of watching the game again once I got home. Now I'm just angry. I've gone from it was a good game, we didn't get the rub of the green, but probably didn't impact the game too much ... to ... if I see an Englishman in the street I want to punch the fucker, that all English ref team fucked us even in the last seconds of the game.
Hopefully when I sober up again tomorrow I'll be chill again.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
A clip of it. How the TMO can ignore this is beyond me.
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
A clip of it. How the TMO can ignore this is beyond me.
For me that’s worthy of a referral and I’d have expected Barnes to rule yellow/bunker.
Had there been no TMO Blacks would have won that.
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Left field viewpoint, but had BOK not shat the bed we’d have had France AB final. Having been at game THAT would have been the most extraordinary event, with shades of the 95 final, which remains my reference point.
We might well have lost it, but I’m sure I’d be feeling a lot better about the name on the trophy.
P.S. The enormous fanfare at the end was ludicrous given the ‘champions’ were the result of multiple 50:50 officiating calls and misses. -
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
Christ you're such a hypocrite. Switch sides and you'd be screaming blue murder. Zero self awareness.
Saffa fans, media and coaches are the worst complainers when it comes to reffing. That isn't opinion, that is fact
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Left field viewpoint, but had BOK not shat the bed we’d have had France AB final. Having been at game THAT would have been the most extraordinary event, with shades of the 95 final, which remains my reference point.
We might well have lost it, but I’m sure I’d be feeling a lot better about the name on the trophy.
P.S. The enormous fanfare at the end was ludicrous given the ‘champions’ were the result of multiple 50:50 officiating calls and misses. -
@canefan you will never get ref bashing from me, specially if my team lose. Its the easy excuse. Sound like sour grapes and make you depressed. Refs make mistakes, they are human.
@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan you will never get ref bashing from me, specially if my team lose. Its the easy excuse. Sound like sour grapes and make you depressed. Refs make mistakes, they are human.
Maybe not you, and it wasn't aimed at you. But the SA fan base in general know how to whinge about refs, and it starts at the top
Just one example
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.
But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...
And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.
But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...
And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.
If he hadn't gone for the illegal neck roll he wouldn't have been in a position to fall on Bongi
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@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan you will never get ref bashing from me, specially if my team lose. Its the easy excuse. Sound like sour grapes and make you depressed. Refs make mistakes, they are human.
Maybe not you, and it wasn't aimed at you. But the SA fan base in general know how to whinge about refs, and it starts at the top
Just one example
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@voodoo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@voodoo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
As above.
so, the mitigation is your personal preference to be on the end of one over the other...? That's pretty comical pal.
They're both clear reds under the current laws. Kolisi comes flying into the line and recklessly makes significant head-on-head contact.
It's just a red mate, give it up.
Yep, and your deranged view from your armchair is more accurate than a panel of referees - got it.
I Cannot have a rational conversation with someone who is clearly still in the first stage of grief. I give you some time - 4 years.
/grabs coat
I made a pretty rational assessment of the incident - rushed in, recklessly made contact with his head. Your assessment was "one might hurt more".
Poor effort mate.
Any jeez, if you really believe that we shouldn't question the ability and consistency of the blokes in the TMO seats, then you're watching a different game to the rest of us
Save your strength. The troll is gone. Funny because as much as most on here are upset with the ref/TMO, we are generally just as frustrated by our own team. I don't recall one poster saying anything along the lines of "we was robbed"
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@voodoo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@voodoo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
As above.
so, the mitigation is your personal preference to be on the end of one over the other...? That's pretty comical pal.
They're both clear reds under the current laws. Kolisi comes flying into the line and recklessly makes significant head-on-head contact.
It's just a red mate, give it up.
Yep, and your deranged view from your armchair is more accurate than a panel of referees - got it.
I Cannot have a rational conversation with someone who is clearly still in the first stage of grief. I give you some time - 4 years.
/grabs coat
I made a pretty rational assessment of the incident - rushed in, recklessly made contact with his head. Your assessment was "one might hurt more".
Poor effort mate.
Any jeez, if you really believe that we shouldn't question the ability and consistency of the blokes in the TMO seats, then you're watching a different game to the rest of us
Save your strength. The troll is gone. Funny because as much as most on here are upset with the ref/TMO, we are generally just as frustrated by our own team. I don't recall one poster saying anything along the lines of "we was robbed"
Those three words weren't used...
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The call to go for the corner, rather than the posts, came from foster, it was mentioned in the comms
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
The call to go for the corner, rather than the posts, came from foster, it was mentioned in the comms
Terrible coaching
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@voodoo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Bovidae said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
And speaking of tackles, de Groot gets a forearm to the nose and it's just "a glancing blow". Play on.
And despite it all, we still could have won if we'd kicked our kicks or set up a DG on one of two occasions.
we just couldn't get into position for a DG though could we - they defended well in that final stretch and we were rooted
I recall two occasions we were near the 22, dead in front
Boks showed multiple times drop goal attempts in that game in those field conditions were very difficult
@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@voodoo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Bovidae said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
And speaking of tackles, de Groot gets a forearm to the nose and it's just "a glancing blow". Play on.
And despite it all, we still could have won if we'd kicked our kicks or set up a DG on one of two occasions.
we just couldn't get into position for a DG though could we - they defended well in that final stretch and we were rooted
I recall two occasions we were near the 22, dead in front
Boks showed multiple times drop goal attempts in that game in those field conditions were very difficult
NZ only needed 1 to go over
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Siya Kolisi open a big market for SArugby.
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@pakman Springboks vs France was the real final. Both teams had a full blown effort in that first half.
@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman Springboks vs France was the real final. Both teams had a full blown effort in that first half.
One could make an argument for that, but French were better team on day and Boks final penalty was clearly wrong, as acknowledged by various officials.
Wouldn’t have been aggrieved with France on trophy, as IMO have ability to play at highest level of all the teams.
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@canefan well Rassie has been much better this WC. I understand Barnes received death threads again from All Blacks supporters.
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Rugby has issues as a sport that entertains. It’s losing that battle and has real risk issues being a collision sport. Critical to this is the administration being dominated by NH. The NH mindset is based on a static (important) forwards power game whereas SH teams use the ball more. As the game has become more defensively oriented we see endless box kicks and lineout malls dominate. It’s not that they are not part of the game, it’s just about balance. If we want entertainment then the balance should be moved to reward teams that carry, pass, and most importantly speed up the game. You would think that France and Ireland would now want to see a change in administration to that end?
On the collision side, the final demonstrated the problem. Any head contact is an issue. If the tackler is aiming at chest then the head is always in play because of changes in height and lateral movements. The issue then becomes that at speed any card decision is subjective. Not sure how you could every coach for that. As someone said before until they lower the height of all tackles the law and its application is a joke.
Which brings us back to the entertainment factor. Playing with 14 men ruins the spectacle. How the NH power mongers don’t see that I don’t know? The solutions on table are 20m red card or referral system. I favour a combination - referral unless malicious, which should be a high threshold that sees 20 min red.
As for suggestions that Cane’s shoulder tackle was more impactful than head to head, just pure nonsense. Anyone that’s played rugby knows that straight head to head contact is just as bad if not a lot worse.
@kev said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Rugby has issues as a sport that entertains. It’s losing that battle and has real risk issues being a collision sport. Critical to this is the administration being dominated by NH. The NH mindset is based on a static (important) forwards power game whereas SH teams use the ball more. As the game has become more defensively oriented we see endless box kicks and lineout malls dominate. It’s not that they are not part of the game, it’s just about balance. If we want entertainment then the balance should be moved to reward teams that carry, pass, and most importantly speed up the game. You would think that France and Ireland would now want to see a change in administration to that end?
On the collision side, the final demonstrated the problem. Any head contact is an issue. If the tackler is aiming at chest then the head is always in play because of changes in height and lateral movements. The issue then becomes that at speed any card decision is subjective. Not sure how you could every coach for that. As someone said before until they lower the height of all tackles the law and its application is a joke.
Which brings us back to the entertainment factor. Playing with 14 men ruins the spectacle. How the NH power mongers don’t see that I don’t know? The solutions on table are 20m red card or referral system. I favour a combination - referral unless malicious, which should be a high threshold that sees 20 min red.
As for suggestions that Cane’s shoulder tackle was more impactful than head to head, just pure nonsense. Anyone that’s played rugby knows that straight head to head contact is just as bad if not a lot worse.
That's a massive generalisation
France and Ireland can do both
Wales and Scotland prefer a more open running style -
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
A clip of it. How the TMO can ignore this is beyond me.
Good to see the video as opposed to the still image - as it turns out, he can ignore it because EE’s arm was against his body when he made contact then he pushed the player away - that is totally legal at the moment. I wondered if that might be the case, live I thought it was a leading forearm, having seen that grainy video I’ve changed my mind.
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
A clip of it. How the TMO can ignore this is beyond me.
Good to see the video as opposed to the still image - as it turns out, he can ignore it because EE’s arm was against his body when he made contact then he pushed the player away - that is totally legal at the moment. I wondered if that might be the case, live I thought it was a leading forearm, having seen that grainy video I’ve changed my mind.
Looks fairly clear to me that's not against his body.
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@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
One that went our way was Telea's pass to BB for the try. Felt it was slightly forward.
As was Jordie's just before it
Hands never went backwards
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.
But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...
And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.
If he hadn't gone for the illegal neck roll he wouldn't have been in a position to fall on Bongi
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.
But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...
And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.
If he hadn't gone for the illegal neck roll he wouldn't have been in a position to fall on Bongi
So post tackle, a player has to run into open field to fall over?
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@GarthJ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@No-Quarter Bok supporter and I agree. A YC is appropriate, but not a RC. Perhaps extend the length of the YC to 15-20 minutes, but don’t eliminate the player altogether.
I think both teams got fucked by referee and TMO intervention, though the ABs more. But even more importantly the spectacle is just ruined when they are always searching for indiscretions and arbitrarily applying the laws. The game constantly stops and it's confusing as fuck as to what is even going on for long periods. It's a terrible spectator sport right now.
@No-Quarter said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@GarthJ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@No-Quarter Bok supporter and I agree. A YC is appropriate, but not a RC. Perhaps extend the length of the YC to 15-20 minutes, but don’t eliminate the player altogether.
I think both teams got fucked by referee and TMO intervention, though the ABs more. But even more importantly the spectacle is just ruined when they are always searching for indiscretions and arbitrarily applying the laws. The game constantly stops and it's confusing as fuck as to what is even going on for long periods. It's a terrible spectator sport right now.
This is the crux of the complaint. I don't think anyone is seriously suggested Barnes fucked us. We know had just one kick gone over we win. But fuck me, the same TMO that fucked us against Ireland decided to ref the game from a TV, kissed some clear and obvious shit and demonstrated severe inconsistent officiating.
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@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
A clip of it. How the TMO can ignore this is beyond me.
Good to see the video as opposed to the still image - as it turns out, he can ignore it because EE’s arm was against his body when he made contact then he pushed the player away - that is totally legal at the moment. I wondered if that might be the case, live I thought it was a leading forearm, having seen that grainy video I’ve changed my mind.
Looks fairly clear to me that's not against his body.
@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
A clip of it. How the TMO can ignore this is beyond me.
Good to see the video as opposed to the still image - as it turns out, he can ignore it because EE’s arm was against his body when he made contact then he pushed the player away - that is totally legal at the moment. I wondered if that might be the case, live I thought it was a leading forearm, having seen that grainy video I’ve changed my mind.
Looks fairly clear to me that's not against his body.
but Etzebeth has 19-inch biceps in a far bigger body running over a crouched player, and wouldn't hurt a fly!
World Rugby 2021 Aims of the Head Contact Process
"Mitigation will not apply for intentional or highly reckless acts of foul play..""The process is designed to protect the head, neck and throat area of players. The process can be applied to:
• High tackles
• Shoulder charges
• Dangerous cleanouts
• Head-to-head collisions
• Leading elbow / forearm "
