RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There has been a discipline and or cards issue for some time.
I'd say there's a clear subconscious bias. IMO a capable TMO wouldn't have said the threshold was made for a bloke that has someone turn into him, and not for someone that runs 10 metres into the face of someone else.
I also take umbrage at the discretionary use of "absorbing".
@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There has been a discipline and or cards issue for some time.
I'd say there's a clear subconscious bias. IMO a capable TMO wouldn't have said the threshold was made for a bloke that has someone turn into him, and not for someone that runs 10 metres into the face of someone else.
I also take umbrage at the discretionary use of "absorbing".
Will elaborate later, but there's a view around that Bunker really wanted to upgarde Frizell to red, and so unconscious bias cam in and meant didn't look to hard for mitigation for Cane, the irony being that Barnes could well have.
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@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
Entirely caused by EE illegal interference. It ought to have been left to stand, because the only correct alternative was a penalty try and EE in bin for 10.
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
Entirely cause by EE illegal interference. It ought to have been left to stand, because the only correct alternative was a penalty try and EE in bin for 10.
You can't give a pen try for that infringement. But I agree with Reason (ugh), if Barnes found no fault and we scored half a dozen phases later, the TMO has overstepped his bounds to disallow the try. You could argue that it was also a failure of Barnes not to know the two phase rule and disregard the TMOs input
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@junior said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
really just posting...because i feel i should post after the big game
Gutted sums it up
There are things i would like to complain about but the reality we just didn't play as well as we needed to win, we didn't play like we did against ireland and it showed
I also just think SA wanted it more, i know their fans did, at a pub in melbourne and their fans were RABID, kiwis stood quietly at most mumbling the national anthem but the Bokke supporters were calling it out, chanting during the game etc....and i think the team played like it too...just flying up on defence when we held back and waited for them to come to us
i feel we get cards by carelessness or brain explosions, cane gets caught off guard with a player turning into him...card, scooter last week = brain fart...the Bokke get done because theyre pushing the limits, if they catch someone in a high tackle its because theyre flown out to make a dominant tackle
now thats a bad result....but i think it shows they just really want to win...and we just want to play a bit of footy
What a load of horseshit. If our guys weren't desperate to win they would have given up when their captain was sent off. Just because Saffas puff their chests out more in pubs doesn't mean our players wanted it any less.
They certainly weren't blue headed tho, SA know exactly what they want and don't get over excited like a lot of our backs seemed to
I don't know about this - the Jaapies were farking terrible in that second half. They should have gone for the jugular and ground us into the dirt, but they barely held on.
They were flustered, and we couldn't put them away
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@junior said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
really just posting...because i feel i should post after the big game
Gutted sums it up
There are things i would like to complain about but the reality we just didn't play as well as we needed to win, we didn't play like we did against ireland and it showed
I also just think SA wanted it more, i know their fans did, at a pub in melbourne and their fans were RABID, kiwis stood quietly at most mumbling the national anthem but the Bokke supporters were calling it out, chanting during the game etc....and i think the team played like it too...just flying up on defence when we held back and waited for them to come to us
i feel we get cards by carelessness or brain explosions, cane gets caught off guard with a player turning into him...card, scooter last week = brain fart...the Bokke get done because theyre pushing the limits, if they catch someone in a high tackle its because theyre flown out to make a dominant tackle
now thats a bad result....but i think it shows they just really want to win...and we just want to play a bit of footy
What a load of horseshit. If our guys weren't desperate to win they would have given up when their captain was sent off. Just because Saffas puff their chests out more in pubs doesn't mean our players wanted it any less.
They certainly weren't blue headed tho, SA know exactly what they want and don't get over excited like a lot of our backs seemed to
I don't know about this - the Jaapies were farking terrible in that second half. They should have gone for the jugular and ground us into the dirt, but they barely held on.
They were flustered, and we couldn't put them away
I can't nitpick AB tactics, because they got dealt a crap hand, out played two Boks forward packs while operating with 14 men, and if either of two last kicks had gone over would have pulled off an escape Houdini would have been proud of.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If Nepo wins scrum penlty at end of game I expect @Bones to buy me a beer.
I will buy you the world babe.
@Bones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If Nepo wins scrum penlty at end of game I expect @Bones to buy me a beer.
I will buy you the world babe.
Did you see the last scrum before reset? Was a free kick to ABs, but Barnes chickened out. It's a moral crate, mate!
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@junior said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
really just posting...because i feel i should post after the big game
Gutted sums it up
There are things i would like to complain about but the reality we just didn't play as well as we needed to win, we didn't play like we did against ireland and it showed
I also just think SA wanted it more, i know their fans did, at a pub in melbourne and their fans were RABID, kiwis stood quietly at most mumbling the national anthem but the Bokke supporters were calling it out, chanting during the game etc....and i think the team played like it too...just flying up on defence when we held back and waited for them to come to us
i feel we get cards by carelessness or brain explosions, cane gets caught off guard with a player turning into him...card, scooter last week = brain fart...the Bokke get done because theyre pushing the limits, if they catch someone in a high tackle its because theyre flown out to make a dominant tackle
now thats a bad result....but i think it shows they just really want to win...and we just want to play a bit of footy
What a load of horseshit. If our guys weren't desperate to win they would have given up when their captain was sent off. Just because Saffas puff their chests out more in pubs doesn't mean our players wanted it any less.
They certainly weren't blue headed tho, SA know exactly what they want and don't get over excited like a lot of our backs seemed to
I don't know about this - the Jaapies were farking terrible in that second half. They should have gone for the jugular and ground us into the dirt, but they barely held on.
They were flustered, and we couldn't put them away
I can't nitpick AB tactics, because they got dealt a crap hand, out played two Boks forward packs while operating with 14 men, and if either of two last kicks had gone over would have pulled off an escape Houdini would have been proud of.
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@junior said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
really just posting...because i feel i should post after the big game
Gutted sums it up
There are things i would like to complain about but the reality we just didn't play as well as we needed to win, we didn't play like we did against ireland and it showed
I also just think SA wanted it more, i know their fans did, at a pub in melbourne and their fans were RABID, kiwis stood quietly at most mumbling the national anthem but the Bokke supporters were calling it out, chanting during the game etc....and i think the team played like it too...just flying up on defence when we held back and waited for them to come to us
i feel we get cards by carelessness or brain explosions, cane gets caught off guard with a player turning into him...card, scooter last week = brain fart...the Bokke get done because theyre pushing the limits, if they catch someone in a high tackle its because theyre flown out to make a dominant tackle
now thats a bad result....but i think it shows they just really want to win...and we just want to play a bit of footy
What a load of horseshit. If our guys weren't desperate to win they would have given up when their captain was sent off. Just because Saffas puff their chests out more in pubs doesn't mean our players wanted it any less.
They certainly weren't blue headed tho, SA know exactly what they want and don't get over excited like a lot of our backs seemed to
I don't know about this - the Jaapies were farking terrible in that second half. They should have gone for the jugular and ground us into the dirt, but they barely held on.
They were flustered, and we couldn't put them away
I can't nitpick AB tactics, because they got dealt a crap hand, out played two Boks forward packs while operating with 14 men, and if either of two last kicks had gone over would have pulled off an escape Houdini would have been proud of.
Can't fault the effort, just couldn't get over the line when they had a chance, in the face of adversity
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Another thing - since when is the RWC final expected to be a showpiece of our game?
In my lifetime:
95 - Dour penalty fest
99 - Fairly dour penalty fest
03 - Great Lote Tuqiri try, then a dour penalty fest
07 - Dour penalty fest
11 - Dour penalty fest
15 - Actually great game, easily the best final and closer than scoreline suggested
19 - Not that dour but also not that close
23 - Pretty dour penalty festImportant to note that one man's 'dour penalty fest' is another man's grinding physical contest so take it all with a grain of salt if you must.
But if your expectation was the final would be a classic showpiece, well I think it's a bit on you if you are disappointed.
@barbarian You may have missed the point a little re the safety rules have changed significantly with inconsistent official interpretation contributing to dour penalty fest.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@junior said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
really just posting...because i feel i should post after the big game
Gutted sums it up
There are things i would like to complain about but the reality we just didn't play as well as we needed to win, we didn't play like we did against ireland and it showed
I also just think SA wanted it more, i know their fans did, at a pub in melbourne and their fans were RABID, kiwis stood quietly at most mumbling the national anthem but the Bokke supporters were calling it out, chanting during the game etc....and i think the team played like it too...just flying up on defence when we held back and waited for them to come to us
i feel we get cards by carelessness or brain explosions, cane gets caught off guard with a player turning into him...card, scooter last week = brain fart...the Bokke get done because theyre pushing the limits, if they catch someone in a high tackle its because theyre flown out to make a dominant tackle
now thats a bad result....but i think it shows they just really want to win...and we just want to play a bit of footy
What a load of horseshit. If our guys weren't desperate to win they would have given up when their captain was sent off. Just because Saffas puff their chests out more in pubs doesn't mean our players wanted it any less.
They certainly weren't blue headed tho, SA know exactly what they want and don't get over excited like a lot of our backs seemed to
I don't know about this - the Jaapies were farking terrible in that second half. They should have gone for the jugular and ground us into the dirt, but they barely held on.
They were flustered, and we couldn't put them away
I can't nitpick AB tactics, because they got dealt a crap hand, out played two Boks forward packs while operating with 14 men, and if either of two last kicks had gone over would have pulled off an escape Houdini would have been proud of.
Can't fault the effort, just couldn't get over the line when they had a chance, in the face of adversity
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No use complaining about refereeing, you win some, you lose some, and it is easier to remember the whistles that went against you.
The TMO interventions are annoying, though, and getting problematic.
Going back to chalk off tries but not doing the same for penalties and drop goals doesn't make a lick of sense. Foul play interventions are fine in theory, but rugby has far, far too many (coincidental/accidental) collisions with heads, that it tarnishes the spectacle when the TMO is used this way. -
No use complaining about refereeing, you win some, you lose some, and it is easier to remember the whistles that went against you.
The TMO interventions are annoying, though, and getting problematic.
Going back to chalk off tries but not doing the same for penalties and drop goals doesn't make a lick of sense. Foul play interventions are fine in theory, but rugby has far, far too many (coincidental/accidental) collisions with heads, that it tarnishes the spectacle when the TMO is used this way.@Tordah said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
No use complaining about refereeing, you win some, you lose some, and it is easier to remember the whistles that went against you.
The TMO interventions are annoying, though, and getting problematic.
Going back to chalk off tries but not doing the same for penalties and drop goals doesn't make a lick of sense. Foul play interventions are fine in theory, but rugby has far, far too many (coincidental/accidental) collisions with heads, that it tarnishes the spectacle when the TMO is used this way.Some balance needs to be found definitely. I'm hoping that the current situation is a work in progress because currently it is tarnishing the spectacle.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If that game were played without a TMO, Blacks win easily. If TMO used to ensure correct decisions (e.g. Savea penalty), Blacks win game.
But in the mess which is the current top level officiating we get an anomalous result.
How many do there have to be before this gets sorted?
This is another Schrödinger's cat scenario
If Smith's try had stood do you honestly think that SA couldn't have gotten points back / changed their game plan to more attacking rugby if they had to 'chase' the game?
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it?
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
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I think the bruises will take a bit longer than a couple days and truthfully Cane never deserved red. Feel really bad for him. But thanks for the great final. Nobody had anything left. And the rest of us fans were spent emotionally. Grateful to all of the guys on both teams for the battle. PSDT a reported 28 tackles. And Fat Frans 🤪10 in first 40… An attritional battle all the way to last whistle. If you don’t like scrums and union then just go watch league
I am wheelchair-bound and an easy target.in the mayhem of a hotel bar screening .. And I can comfortably tell you that I have never been kissed by so many men after that final whistle
Looking forward to see you guys in Oz in the final for the next round 
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T Tordah referenced this topic on
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@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it?
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
@stodders said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MiketheSnow by attacking rugby, do you mean the garryowen and hope someone drops it?
Key to beating SA is to get your noses in front and force them to play. NZ never managed it, so the likes of PSDT, Kwagga and Fourie were able to destroy with majesty.
No point musing if Boks could have played attacking rugby or not. Fact is, they won without having to. Up to everyone else to evolve their games and show their game plan up.
NZ and England’s packs showed what happens when you blunt the Boks up front. The bomb squad did nothing against a NZ 7 + Jordie.
Boks managed to slow down NZ ball to an average 5 seconds. That’s an eternity for a team that plays like NZ. Not having your 7 at the breakdown to clear bodies and secure quick ball really hurt NZ.
Maybe Razor will force the ABs to improve their discipline. It wouldn’t hurt.
To paraphrase Foster, 'horses for courses'
SA played a game they thought would blunt the NZ attack
For the most part it worked
Rock beat scissors
But if you don't think SA can play another way I suggest you watch the URC and the European Cups
The SA teams can run them in as well as the NZ teams
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I think the bruises will take a bit longer than a couple days and truthfully Cane never deserved red. Feel really bad for him. But thanks for the great final. Nobody had anything left. And the rest of us fans were spent emotionally. Grateful to all of the guys on both teams for the battle. PSDT a reported 28 tackles. And Fat Frans 🤪10 in first 40… An attritional battle all the way to last whistle. If you don’t like scrums and union then just go watch league
I am wheelchair-bound and an easy target.in the mayhem of a hotel bar screening .. And I can comfortably tell you that I have never been kissed by so many men after that final whistle Looking forward to see you guys in Oz in the final for the next round @mantissanet said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If you don’t like scrums and union then just go watch league
...and this is the shit I can't stand. The state of the game is being rightly criticised but you see fit to dismiss a whole lot of valid concern from lifelong rugby people with this one line of juvenile nonsense. Sure there are some people throwing toys, but that is far from all it is.
I loved rugby for the variety. I do fucking love scrums. I stopped watching league when I was a kid because it was repetitive: hit hit hit kick. And that sadly is exactly what rugby has become. Read this: https://www.statsperform.com/resource/revolutionising-rugby-a-statistical-analysis-on-how-the-game-has-evolved/
Then if you like you could just admit you're happy because you won and don't give a shit about the game itself. -
@W32 those 2 def have a bromance going on, but in todays day and age, I think its great to see these 2 have built such a friendship.
Just seen this image on social media, unsure if it's been posted already, but it is a pretty powerful image that puts it all in context.
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@W32 those 2 def have a bromance going on, but in todays day and age, I think its great to see these 2 have built such a friendship.
Just seen this image on social media, unsure if it's been posted already, but it is a pretty powerful image that puts it all in context.
@taniwharugby yeah, my eyes prickled a bit
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At least this proved Twickers was an apparition.
That's my backup@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
At least this proved Twickers was an apparition.
The ABs were a bit ghost-like that day, I’ll give you that.
Aberration is the word you’re looking for.
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@mantissanet said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
If you don’t like scrums and union then just go watch league
...and this is the shit I can't stand. The state of the game is being rightly criticised but you see fit to dismiss a whole lot of valid concern from lifelong rugby people with this one line of juvenile nonsense. Sure there are some people throwing toys, but that is far from all it is.
I loved rugby for the variety. I do fucking love scrums. I stopped watching league when I was a kid because it was repetitive: hit hit hit kick. And that sadly is exactly what rugby has become. Read this: https://www.statsperform.com/resource/revolutionising-rugby-a-statistical-analysis-on-how-the-game-has-evolved/
Then if you like you could just admit you're happy because you won and don't give a shit about the game itself.This post is deleted! -
I'm laughing at all the ref saltiness, the ref wasn't perfect. We could've won with a better coach, simple as. Foster called for the corner when it should've been 3, and Foster waited too long to put DMac on (and when he did replaced the wrong player). In addition, someone like Roigard who could make an impact would've been good too. Bench players are so important, having safe ginger was stupid.
The players made it worse by not being calm enough and turning over more ball than they ever have before - not all of it under pressure - lots of 50-50 and just stone-cold shitty drops. Our best player had to play for 3 with Frizzle deciding to revert to type (1 fucking tackle!), and Cane being a dumb ass and going in high (again). I can give the player's slack as they are on the field and the mental pressure must be huge, having been in those sorts of situations clarity is hard. It's a lot easier for coaches/generals sitting back in the COAC with the screens, tho.
Yes, there were calls against us, but we could've won that with slightly more intelligence and leadership.
SA might have been crap in the second half but their game plan allows for that, it is simple and effective. But they can be beaten if you have the right mental fortitude on the pitch and in the box - we didn't.
