All Blacks 2024
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Yeah you want your war horses in the RWC year - not in the year after the RWC.
Not the point more up sides to young players learning off Whitelock a real test lock than Vaai pretending to be one.
Short sighted not looking at the potential overall long term benefits.@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Yeah you want your war horses in the RWC year - not in the year after the RWC.
Not the point more up sides to young players learning off Whitelock a real test lock than Vaai pretending to be one.
Short sighted not looking at the potential overall long term benefits.Ironical this statement as Vaai has already had years of "learning" off Whitelock and it hasn't really helped has it?
If Whitelock is to come back because he's simply better than everyone else playing and deserves to be there on merit that's fine, short sighted consdiering he defiently wont be there come the next RWC but ok.
If he's there with a transition into a coaching role then that's great.
I'm also not sure that the Whitelock we got at the RWC last year is going to be the same Whitelock we get back in 2024. He mentally checked out from the game at the top level to retire - history is littered with atheletes who retired, came back and were a shadow of their former selves.
It just seems to me that time and effort would be better spent on developing the talent we have here.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
NZR must be rolling in cash if they can buy-out these lucrative overseas contracts.
Not that there is any indication that is happening
@Machpants TSF: Rumour = Fact
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Yeah you want your war horses in the RWC year - not in the year after the RWC.
Not the point more up sides to young players learning off Whitelock a real test lock than Vaai pretending to be one.
Short sighted not looking at the potential overall long term benefits.Ironical this statement as Vaai has already had years of "learning" off Whitelock and it hasn't really helped has it?
If Whitelock is to come back because he's simply better than everyone else playing and deserves to be there on merit that's fine, short sighted consdiering he defiently wont be there come the next RWC but ok.
If he's there with a transition into a coaching role then that's great.
I'm also not sure that the Whitelock we got at the RWC last year is going to be the same Whitelock we get back in 2024. He mentally checked out from the game at the top level to retire - history is littered with atheletes who retired, came back and were a shadow of their former selves.
It just seems to me that time and effort would be better spent on developing the talent we have here.
@Windows97 Vai'i plays for the Crusaders? Because that is where your base of learning happens, day to day rugby, not the short sharp fine tuning that happens in limited times with national teams, IMO
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
NZR must be rolling in cash if they can buy-out these lucrative overseas contracts.
Yeah the details matter
If Pau lets him go out of the kindness of their heart (why would they?) and Whitelock signs to NZR for a lower contract than he was previously on (there's no way he's worth the same as his previous deal now) that's not a huge issue
If NZR was paying for him twice, or whatever break contract fee? Fuck that
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Yeah you want your war horses in the RWC year - not in the year after the RWC.
Not the point more up sides to young players learning off Whitelock a real test lock than Vaai pretending to be one.
Short sighted not looking at the potential overall long term benefits.Ironical this statement as Vaai has already had years of "learning" off Whitelock and it hasn't really helped has it?
If Whitelock is to come back because he's simply better than everyone else playing and deserves to be there on merit that's fine, short sighted consdiering he defiently wont be there come the next RWC but ok.
If he's there with a transition into a coaching role then that's great.
I'm also not sure that the Whitelock we got at the RWC last year is going to be the same Whitelock we get back in 2024. He mentally checked out from the game at the top level to retire - history is littered with atheletes who retired, came back and were a shadow of their former selves.
It just seems to me that time and effort would be better spent on developing the talent we have here.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ironical this statement as Vaai has already had years of "learning" off Whitelock and it hasn't really helped has it?
You can't polish a turd.
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I really hope these rumours about Robertson tapping up Mo'unga and Whitelock are just that - rumours and bullshit.
Because if a new, much-hyped, forward-looking AB coach at the start of a RWC cycle first instinct is to look to past glories, then we have been sold a fucking big pup.
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I really hope these rumours about Robertson tapping up Mo'unga and Whitelock are just that - rumours and bullshit.
Because if a new, much-hyped, forward-looking AB coach at the start of a RWC cycle first instinct is to look to past glories, then we have been sold a fucking big pup.
@Victor-Meldrew if he is indeed 'pursuing' them, I expect it is with his ulterior motive of getting the selection of overseas players relaxed to allow selection of such players.
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@Windows97 Vai'i plays for the Crusaders? Because that is where your base of learning happens, day to day rugby, not the short sharp fine tuning that happens in limited times with national teams, IMO
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 Vai'i plays for the Crusaders? Because that is where your base of learning happens, day to day rugby, not the short sharp fine tuning that happens in limited times with national teams, IMO
Which entirely puts to bed the arguement that it'll be great to have him back so he can mentor the new players as he'll be no use what-so-ever in mentoring the AB locks - unless, per chance they happen to play for the Crusaders.
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I really hope these rumours about Robertson tapping up Mo'unga and Whitelock are just that - rumours and bullshit.
Because if a new, much-hyped, forward-looking AB coach at the start of a RWC cycle first instinct is to look to past glories, then we have been sold a fucking big pup.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I really hope these rumours about Robertson tapping up Mo'unga and Whitelock are just that - rumours and bullshit.
Because if a new, much-hyped, forward-looking AB coach at the start of a RWC cycle first instinct is to look to past glories, then we have been sold a fucking big pup.
While I will judge Robertson as a coach on his results on the field the optics are getting worse and worse.
In short he was given the job in a kangaroo court appointment that cut out the incumbent and seemingly anyone else who wanted the job. Presumably to stop him going overseas.
This caused an obvious rupture between the incumbent and the incoming coach, to the point where Robertson wasn't even allowed to be present at the AB's games in the RWC...
This rupture then turned into a chasm as Joe said F you to NZR and left to coach the wallabies.
Now we hear he's trying to get players that have committed to retirement from international rugby to come back into international rugby.
He has a fabulous record with the Crusaders, and I really hope he continues that with the AB's because his lead up into his first year is terrifying.
NZR appears to be a bunch of people fighting each other, rather than an organisation united together to achieve the same goals. And that is what concerns me, much more so than who is the AB coach or if Whitelock is coming back or not.
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@Victor-Meldrew if he is indeed 'pursuing' them, I expect it is with his ulterior motive of getting the selection of overseas players relaxed to allow selection of such players.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew if he is indeed 'pursuing' them, I expect it is with his ulterior motive of getting the selection of overseas players relaxed to allow selection of such players.
Then he should be upfront and honest about it - in the belly and not the back and all that.
But as I said, I hope these are just stupid rumours.
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@Windows97 Vai'i plays for the Crusaders? Because that is where your base of learning happens, day to day rugby, not the short sharp fine tuning that happens in limited times with national teams, IMO
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
short sharp fine tuning that happens in limited times with national teams
not to completely dismiss your point
but the ABs are not a "short, sharp" rep team any more. They are together for half of the year. They spend as much if not more time training together than the Super teams
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I really hope these rumours about Robertson tapping up Mo'unga and Whitelock are just that - rumours and bullshit.
Because if a new, much-hyped, forward-looking AB coach at the start of a RWC cycle first instinct is to look to past glories, then we have been sold a fucking big pup.
While I will judge Robertson as a coach on his results on the field the optics are getting worse and worse.
In short he was given the job in a kangaroo court appointment that cut out the incumbent and seemingly anyone else who wanted the job. Presumably to stop him going overseas.
This caused an obvious rupture between the incumbent and the incoming coach, to the point where Robertson wasn't even allowed to be present at the AB's games in the RWC...
This rupture then turned into a chasm as Joe said F you to NZR and left to coach the wallabies.
Now we hear he's trying to get players that have committed to retirement from international rugby to come back into international rugby.
He has a fabulous record with the Crusaders, and I really hope he continues that with the AB's because his lead up into his first year is terrifying.
NZR appears to be a bunch of people fighting each other, rather than an organisation united together to achieve the same goals. And that is what concerns me, much more so than who is the AB coach or if Whitelock is coming back or not.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
This caused an obvious rupture between the incumbent and the incoming coach, to the point where Robertson wasn't even allowed to be present at the AB's games in the RWC...
I actually understood that and it made sense. I equally understand why Schmidt walked - NZR wanted to ditch continuity so we lost Schmidt. But if you want to take a punt and start afresh, you don't go back to 35 yr olds.
I hope this is just the rumour mill, I really do. Robertson has an opportunity to build a long-term team on the core of Foster's RWC finalists but in his own image with plenty of leeway for some cock-ups along the way. He should just get on with it,
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew if he is indeed 'pursuing' them, I expect it is with his ulterior motive of getting the selection of overseas players relaxed to allow selection of such players.
Then he should be upfront and honest about it - in the belly and not the back and all that.
But as I said, I hope these are just stupid rumours.
@Victor-Meldrew I guess he has been, this is just attacking form another angle, assuming true of course.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 Vai'i plays for the Crusaders? Because that is where your base of learning happens, day to day rugby, not the short sharp fine tuning that happens in limited times with national teams, IMO
Which entirely puts to bed the arguement that it'll be great to have him back so he can mentor the new players as he'll be no use what-so-ever in mentoring the AB locks - unless, per chance they happen to play for the Crusaders.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 Vai'i plays for the Crusaders? Because that is where your base of learning happens, day to day rugby, not the short sharp fine tuning that happens in limited times with national teams, IMO
Which entirely puts to bed the arguement that it'll be great to have him back so he can mentor the new players as he'll be no use what-so-ever in mentoring the AB locks - unless, per chance they happen to play for the Crusaders.
Good point. And Vai'i did have BBBR? SO what do I know haha
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ironical this statement as Vaai has already had years of "learning" off Whitelock and it hasn't really helped has it?
You can't polish a turd.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ironical this statement as Vaai has already had years of "learning" off Whitelock and it hasn't really helped has it?
You can't polish a turd.
And if the concern is that "all our locks are turds" (Scooter and Lord aside) - what exactly is the point of bringing in someone specifically to polish them?
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ironical this statement as Vaai has already had years of "learning" off Whitelock and it hasn't really helped has it?
You can't polish a turd.
And if the concern is that "all our locks are turds" (Scooter and Lord aside) - what exactly is the point of bringing in someone specifically to polish them?
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ironical this statement as Vaai has already had years of "learning" off Whitelock and it hasn't really helped has it?
You can't polish a turd.
And if the concern is that "all our locks are turds" (Scooter and Lord aside) - what exactly is the point of bringing in someone specifically to polish them?
I don't think they are. I see far more potential in Lord, Holland, Beehre, Hannah etc than Vaai.
Vaai in all likelihood is playing to his potential but it's just not good enough for test rugby. He would probably be even worse than he is now if he hadn't been in the same environment as BBBR and SW.
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As far as I recall Razor was known at the Crusaders for leaving no stone unturned in his quest to win. I see his alleged sounding out of Whitelock, and his other moves that have twisted some panties, as a continuation of him turning over stones, seeing what is on offer and building from there.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
NZR must be rolling in cash if they can buy-out these lucrative overseas contracts.
Yeah the details matter
If Pau lets him go out of the kindness of their heart (why would they?) and Whitelock signs to NZR for a lower contract than he was previously on (there's no way he's worth the same as his previous deal now) that's not a huge issue
If NZR was paying for him twice, or whatever break contract fee? Fuck that
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
NZR must be rolling in cash if they can buy-out these lucrative overseas contracts.
Yeah the details matter
If Pau lets him go out of the kindness of their heart (why would they?) and Whitelock signs to NZR for a lower contract than he was previously on (there's no way he's worth the same as his previous deal now) that's not a huge issue
If NZR was paying for him twice, or whatever break contract fee? Fuck that
That was my point. Whitelock would have been one of the highest earning ABs. It could be a costly transaction.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
This caused an obvious rupture between the incumbent and the incoming coach, to the point where Robertson wasn't even allowed to be present at the AB's games in the RWC...
I actually understood that and it made sense. I equally understand why Schmidt walked - NZR wanted to ditch continuity so we lost Schmidt. But if you want to take a punt and start afresh, you don't go back to 35 yr olds.
I hope this is just the rumour mill, I really do. Robertson has an opportunity to build a long-term team on the core of Foster's RWC finalists but in his own image with plenty of leeway for some cock-ups along the way. He should just get on with it,
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
This caused an obvious rupture between the incumbent and the incoming coach, to the point where Robertson wasn't even allowed to be present at the AB's games in the RWC...
I actually understood that and it made sense. I equally understand why Schmidt walked - NZR wanted to ditch continuity so we lost Schmidt. But if you want to take a punt and start afresh, you don't go back to 35 yr olds.
I hope this is just the rumour mill, I really do. Robertson has an opportunity to build a long-term team on the core of Foster's RWC finalists but in his own image with plenty of leeway for some cock-ups along the way. He should just get on with it,
This also isn't even true...
