All Blacks 2024
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others), but a lock who could cover 6 gives a bit more cover for high attrition positions without having to go all Rassie with the forward/back bench split.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others), but a lock who could cover 6 gives a bit more cover for high attrition positions without having to go all Rassie with the forward/back bench split.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others)
It'd be quicker to list the genuine specialists: Christie, Sotutu.. not many others
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others), but a lock who could cover 6 gives a bit more cover for high attrition positions without having to go all Rassie with the forward/back bench split.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
but a lock who could cover 6 gives a bit more cover for high attrition positions without having to go all Rassie with the forward/back bench split.
That's assuming that the lock can effectively play 6.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
It will be really interesting to see what Razor wants to do here - we have some useful allrounders in Jacobson and Blackadder (if he is ever fit) but I wonder what he will be looking for in his 7 and 8.
I'm wondering whether Ardie is going to return to 7.
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And whilst this is simply a wild conspiricy theory on my part I do wonder with Robertson (supposedly) wanting to get experienced Crusaders players back (SW & RM) is due to him wanting to win the sheds over quickly?
Maybe he's worried that he hasn't got the room given how the RWC and the bunker mentality that was built there and by having supporters and the respected voices such as SW and RM in the room it'll help "smooth the path"?
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And whilst this is simply a wild conspiricy theory on my part I do wonder with Robertson (supposedly) wanting to get experienced Crusaders players back (SW & RM) is due to him wanting to win the sheds over quickly?
Maybe he's worried that he hasn't got the room given how the RWC and the bunker mentality that was built there and by having supporters and the respected voices such as SW and RM in the room it'll help "smooth the path"?
@Windows97 can't see that being a problem.
New coach. New WC cycle. And, a few new players too I'd imagine.
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Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
would he though? he didn't change and become a typical 8 when he moved there
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
would he though? he didn't change and become a typical 8 when he moved there
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
would he though? he didn't change and become a typical 8 when he moved there
well, he just sort of floats around and does what he wants. so if you are picking two guys who have to do the rest, does it matter what jersey numbers?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
would he though? he didn't change and become a typical 8 when he moved there
well, he just sort of floats around and does what he wants. so if you are picking two guys who have to do the rest, does it matter what jersey numbers?
@mariner4life thats what i mean, and what i dont think fozzie knew how to do, select players that compliment each other and come up with a game plan to compliment them all
so if we think savea is the best option at 7...then we pick 6/8 to cover the stuff he might not be doing...even if that isn't "the best" 6/8 when individually evaluated, sum of the parts etc
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@mariner4life thats what i mean, and what i dont think fozzie knew how to do, select players that compliment each other and come up with a game plan to compliment them all
so if we think savea is the best option at 7...then we pick 6/8 to cover the stuff he might not be doing...even if that isn't "the best" 6/8 when individually evaluated, sum of the parts etc
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life thats what i mean, and what i dont think fozzie knew how to do, select players that compliment each other and come up with a game plan to compliment them all
so if we think savea is the best option at 7...then we pick 6/8 to cover the stuff he might not be doing...even if that isn't "the best" 6/8 when individually evaluated, sum of the parts etc
hard disagree. he picked Savea because his attacking game was our point of difference. He then picked Cane and Frizzell on the flanks because he needed to pick guys to clean rucks and hit hard on defence, two things Ardie doesn't do (though he was noticably tighter at the World Cup). where they they best options for that is personal opinion.
If you move Ardie to 7 you still pick guys for the same job, but they play 6 and 8, not 6 and 7.
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Ardie seems to play the same style of game no matter where he is in the loose forward trio.
I think the balence is right with Finau, Ardie 7 and Sotutu 8.
Mind you I also think the balence is right with Finau, Papps at 7 and Aride 8 (loses a bit on the "up the guts" carry, but better mobility).
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And whilst this is simply a wild conspiricy theory on my part I do wonder with Robertson (supposedly) wanting to get experienced Crusaders players back (SW & RM) is due to him wanting to win the sheds over quickly?
Maybe he's worried that he hasn't got the room given how the RWC and the bunker mentality that was built there and by having supporters and the respected voices such as SW and RM in the room it'll help "smooth the path"?
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
And whilst this is simply a wild conspiricy theory on my part I do wonder with Robertson (supposedly) wanting to get experienced Crusaders players back (SW & RM) is due to him wanting to win the sheds over quickly?
Maybe he's worried that he hasn't got the room given how the RWC and the bunker mentality that was built there and by having supporters and the respected voices such as SW and RM in the room it'll help "smooth the path"?
Well if players are not on board they will not last long under Razor.
He will set a way forward and jump on the train or you will be pushed off no matter who you are.
He has a history of making hard call at the Crusaders.
And it could be he just does not think the players left in NZ are good enough in some positions.
And yep your theory is a wildly off the mark one. -
I'd like Ardie to go back to 7, would balance out the loose forward trio. Finau, Ardie, Sotutu gives us plenty of speed and go-forward.
In saying that Finau, Paps and Ardie certainly isn't bad either.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'd like Ardie to go back to 7, would balance out the loose forward trio. Finau, Ardie, Sotutu gives us plenty of speed and go-forward.
In saying that Finau, Paps and Ardie certainly isn't bad either.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie seems to play the same style of game no matter where he is in the loose forward trio.
I think the balence is right with Finau, Ardie 7 and Sotutu 8.
Mind you I also think the balence is right with Finau, Papps at 7 and Aride 8 (loses a bit on the "up the guts" carry, but better mobility).
I'd like to see Flanders and Lakai in the mix somewhere, the Hurricanes are dominating the standings aren't they? Aside from Jacobson, Finau to obviously make 2024 squad, I reckon the likes of Simon Parker, Wallace-Sititi, Kaylum Boshier, from the Chiefs squad have potential to become All Blacks down the track, Chiefs have good loosies coming out of their ears at the moment.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others)
It'd be quicker to list the genuine specialists: Christie, Sotutu.. not many others
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others)
It'd be quicker to list the genuine specialists: Christie, Sotutu.. not many others
Reckon Kirifi has as much upside as Christie.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'd like Ardie to go back to 7, would balance out the loose forward trio. Finau, Ardie, Sotutu gives us plenty of speed and go-forward.
In saying that Finau, Paps and Ardie certainly isn't bad either.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie seems to play the same style of game no matter where he is in the loose forward trio.
I think the balence is right with Finau, Ardie 7 and Sotutu 8.
Mind you I also think the balence is right with Finau, Papps at 7 and Aride 8 (loses a bit on the "up the guts" carry, but better mobility).
I'd like to see Flanders and Lakai in the mix somewhere, the Hurricanes are dominating the standings aren't they? Aside from Jacobson, Finau to obviously make 2024 squad, I reckon the likes of Simon Parker, Wallace-Sititi, Kaylum Boshier, from the Chiefs squad have potential to become All Blacks down the track, Chiefs have good loosies coming out of their ears at the moment.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Dan54 not picking Vaai at 6 would be a good start
The season where he was actually playing there for the chiefs, he was starting to look much better than he does playing lock. But then you definitely need a Jacobson type at 8 or 7 - someone who's actually going to hit hard and not just be a ruck inspector or fall over when they get there.
