All Blacks 2024
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@KiwiMurph yeah, i think the whole 6 can play lock and vice versa needs to be wound back...theyre not the same position, scooter doing it when we had BBBR and Whitelock only just worked...but i think you need more specialists in those positions
A lock/6 does provide an option for bench cover.
@booboo that's fair and i might not have worded it right, it can be handy if one of your three can do it like BBBR,whitelock and Scooter....but i dont think it should be the default for all our locks as i just think becoming world class in one position is hard enough....let alone two
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It's easier to move a 6 into lock than vice versa. The main concern would be losing some power in the scrums but most 6s were often locks at age-group level. SB struggled defending from scrums, and he is one of the more mobile locks around.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
It's easier to move a 6 into lock than vice versa.
Kaino in Chicago v Ireland.
You're right - it should work ... but sometimes it doesn't go well
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
It's easier to move a 6 into lock than vice versa.
Kaino in Chicago v Ireland.
You're right - it should work ... but sometimes it doesn't go well
@nzzp i would go as far as to say if doesnt work more often than it does
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
It's easier to move a 6 into lock than vice versa.
Kaino in Chicago v Ireland.
You're right - it should work ... but sometimes it doesn't go well
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Kaino in Chicago v Ireland.
Yeah but that was Kaino and Tuipulotu (no BBBR or SW). What could go wrong?
You need to use the right player who could fill both roles.
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Kaino in Chicago v Ireland.
Yeah but that was Kaino and Tuipulotu (no BBBR or SW). What could go wrong?
You need to use the right player who could fill both roles.
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others), but a lock who could cover 6 gives a bit more cover for high attrition positions without having to go all Rassie with the forward/back bench split.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others), but a lock who could cover 6 gives a bit more cover for high attrition positions without having to go all Rassie with the forward/back bench split.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others)
It'd be quicker to list the genuine specialists: Christie, Sotutu.. not many others
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
A lot of our loonies seem to be able to cover multiple positions, Savea (think he's maybe available?), Blackadder (injury permitting), Papaalii, Jacobsen ... others), but a lock who could cover 6 gives a bit more cover for high attrition positions without having to go all Rassie with the forward/back bench split.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
but a lock who could cover 6 gives a bit more cover for high attrition positions without having to go all Rassie with the forward/back bench split.
That's assuming that the lock can effectively play 6.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm not sold on needing a lock/6 as long as the loose forwards have enough versatility to cover multiple positions.
That's the trade off isn't it. A 6/lock makes it easier to select a specialist openside on the bench. That can be a good option.
However it's easier to find an allrounder loose forward than a good 6/lock
It will be really interesting to see what Razor wants to do here - we have some useful allrounders in Jacobson and Blackadder (if he is ever fit) but I wonder what he will be looking for in his 7 and 8.
I'm wondering whether Ardie is going to return to 7.
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And whilst this is simply a wild conspiricy theory on my part I do wonder with Robertson (supposedly) wanting to get experienced Crusaders players back (SW & RM) is due to him wanting to win the sheds over quickly?
Maybe he's worried that he hasn't got the room given how the RWC and the bunker mentality that was built there and by having supporters and the respected voices such as SW and RM in the room it'll help "smooth the path"?
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And whilst this is simply a wild conspiricy theory on my part I do wonder with Robertson (supposedly) wanting to get experienced Crusaders players back (SW & RM) is due to him wanting to win the sheds over quickly?
Maybe he's worried that he hasn't got the room given how the RWC and the bunker mentality that was built there and by having supporters and the respected voices such as SW and RM in the room it'll help "smooth the path"?
@Windows97 can't see that being a problem.
New coach. New WC cycle. And, a few new players too I'd imagine.
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Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
would he though? he didn't change and become a typical 8 when he moved there
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
would he though? he didn't change and become a typical 8 when he moved there
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
would he though? he didn't change and become a typical 8 when he moved there
well, he just sort of floats around and does what he wants. so if you are picking two guys who have to do the rest, does it matter what jersey numbers?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Ardie would have to change the way he plays to revert to 7. does that minimise what has made him so good
would he though? he didn't change and become a typical 8 when he moved there
well, he just sort of floats around and does what he wants. so if you are picking two guys who have to do the rest, does it matter what jersey numbers?
@mariner4life thats what i mean, and what i dont think fozzie knew how to do, select players that compliment each other and come up with a game plan to compliment them all
so if we think savea is the best option at 7...then we pick 6/8 to cover the stuff he might not be doing...even if that isn't "the best" 6/8 when individually evaluated, sum of the parts etc
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@mariner4life thats what i mean, and what i dont think fozzie knew how to do, select players that compliment each other and come up with a game plan to compliment them all
so if we think savea is the best option at 7...then we pick 6/8 to cover the stuff he might not be doing...even if that isn't "the best" 6/8 when individually evaluated, sum of the parts etc
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life thats what i mean, and what i dont think fozzie knew how to do, select players that compliment each other and come up with a game plan to compliment them all
so if we think savea is the best option at 7...then we pick 6/8 to cover the stuff he might not be doing...even if that isn't "the best" 6/8 when individually evaluated, sum of the parts etc
hard disagree. he picked Savea because his attacking game was our point of difference. He then picked Cane and Frizzell on the flanks because he needed to pick guys to clean rucks and hit hard on defence, two things Ardie doesn't do (though he was noticably tighter at the World Cup). where they they best options for that is personal opinion.
If you move Ardie to 7 you still pick guys for the same job, but they play 6 and 8, not 6 and 7.
