All Blacks 2024
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@Winger said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
I still think this is our best combination,
Two limited passer is fine when the team plays a smash and base forward based game
But thats not what Robertson wants it seems. So, it a poor combination. Esp when we have the option of Proctor where passing is a strength
I also though Perofeta was good the first game. But poor the 2nd. He not a test FB and really needs to focus on 1st
i havent had a chance to read through the match thread, was this the consensus for the second test?
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@Winger said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
I still think this is our best combination,
Two limited passer is fine when the team plays a smash and base forward based game
But thats not what Robertson wants it seems. So, it a poor combination. Esp when we have the option of Proctor where passing is a strength
I also though Perofeta was good the first game. But poor the 2nd. He not a test FB and really needs to focus on 1st
i havent had a chance to read through the match thread, was this the consensus for the second test?
It varies
But he cost a certain try. And his line clearing was poor = poor for me
He was also replaced at 48 minutes and this was the start of the backline transformation. With (almost*) everything going right for Barrett (* one poor clearing kick)
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Telea looks to have lost a yard of pace from last year, whether through injury or hitting the 27 years mark. He needs to re-find it, because we have plenty of good wings.
Seemed to lose some speed mid season of Super Rugby.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Telea looks to have lost a yard of pace from last year, whether through injury or hitting the 27 years mark. He needs to re-find it, because we have plenty of good wings.
Seemed to lose some speed mid season of Super Rugby.
I thought that too ... Was there a niggle or something???
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@mariner4life Pretty fair assessment.
Big Tamaiti can carry - I've been a bit surprised he hasn't been the bench option, but maybe he's still getting up to speed.
Him, Sami T., and Tosi would make a pretty fearsome bomb squad!
Hopefully some further improvement to come from Scott Barrett. He hadn't played for several months. Next year, when we hopefully have Lord, Holland and Darry in the arsenal, we should have a taller and better lineout.
At 6, we really need a legitimate third lineout jumper. If not Finau, then Suafoa, Dunshea and Hannah are guys with the desired dimensions.
When Dunshea burst onto the scene it was playing number 8 vs the British and Irish Lions. Since then he's had a lot of injuries and now seems to have pushed into lock. Dunno whether he's still got the mobility to play 6.
Too early for Hannah, but I don't think he's tall enough to be a test lock.
Telea looks to have lost a yard of pace from last year, whether through injury or hitting the 27 years mark. He needs to re-find it, because we have plenty of good wings.
Rieko's also 27, so no way is he transitioning back to wing. We'll get to see what Proctor can do, but I don't expect him to push out Rieko this year, if at all.
I expect Jordan to return as a fullback. Whether he goes there immediately, or transitions, that's where his long term future will be IMO. This time next year, he'll be 27 as well.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Hopefully some further improvement to come from Scott Barrett.
Just rewatching the first half and he is in absolutely everying. Extraordinary motor - so many involvements. I'm very very impressed - missed it live but his workrate is off the charts.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Telea looks to have lost a yard of pace from last year, whether through injury or hitting the 27 years mark. He needs to re-find it, because we have plenty of good wings.
Seemed to lose some speed mid season of Super Rugby.
Maybe he lost speed mid season I don't know, but the guy has always been on the slow side. I am not sure why people are surprised by this.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Telea looks to have lost a yard of pace from last year, whether through injury or hitting the 27 years mark. He needs to re-find it, because we have plenty of good wings.
Seemed to lose some speed mid season of Super Rugby.
Maybe he lost speed mid season I don't know, but the guy has always been on the slow side. I am not sure why people are surprised by this.
He's never been express.
But, the last couple of tests he's repeatedly been cutting back inside which is a giveaway that your opponent has you beaten for pace.
I don't recall that from last year - not when he had an outside break.
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Just on Rieko and his “limited” distribution - I’ll need to go and rewatch a heap of games, but feel like I can count on one finger the number of times where he’s received the ball in space and had the option to go himself or put someone into space. Just seems like it’s crash ball every time, and I put that down to gameplay and Jordie more than Rieko’s limitations
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Telea looks to have lost a yard of pace from last year, whether through injury or hitting the 27 years mark. He needs to re-find it, because we have plenty of good wings.
Seemed to lose some speed mid season of Super Rugby.
Maybe he lost speed mid season I don't know, but the guy has always been on the slow side. I am not sure why people are surprised by this.
He's never been express.
But, the last couple of tests he's repeatedly been cutting back inside which is a giveaway that your opponent has you beaten for pace.
I don't recall that from last year - not when he had an outside break.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Telea looks to have lost a yard of pace from last year, whether through injury or hitting the 27 years mark. He needs to re-find it, because we have plenty of good wings.
Seemed to lose some speed mid season of Super Rugby.
Maybe he lost speed mid season I don't know, but the guy has always been on the slow side. I am not sure why people are surprised by this.
He's never been express.
But, the last couple of tests he's repeatedly been cutting back inside which is a giveaway that your opponent has you beaten for pace.
I don't recall that from last year - not when he had an outside break.
true, the thing we might be underestimating is his ability to make ground through congestion (either breaking tackles or just threading the needle), worst case with cutting back is you are closer to your support, best case make a break towards the posts, im still very happy with Telea...with a little work to be done on positioning on defence
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@mariner4life Pretty fair assessment.
Big Tamaiti can carry - I've been a bit surprised he hasn't been the bench option, but maybe he's still getting up to speed.
Him, Sami T., and Tosi would make a pretty fearsome bomb squad!
Hopefully some further improvement to come from Scott Barrett. He hadn't played for several months. Next year, when we hopefully have Lord, Holland and Darry in the arsenal, we should have a taller and better lineout.
At 6, we really need a legitimate third lineout jumper. If not Finau, then Suafoa, Dunshea and Hannah are guys with the desired dimensions.
When Dunshea burst onto the scene it was playing number 8 vs the British and Irish Lions. Since then he's had a lot of injuries and now seems to have pushed into lock. Dunno whether he's still got the mobility to play 6.
Too early for Hannah, but I don't think he's tall enough to be a test lock.
Telea looks to have lost a yard of pace from last year, whether through injury or hitting the 27 years mark. He needs to re-find it, because we have plenty of good wings.
Rieko's also 27, so no way is he transitioning back to wing. We'll get to see what Proctor can do, but I don't expect him to push out Rieko this year, if at all.
I expect Jordan to return as a fullback. Whether he goes there immediately, or transitions, that's where his long term future will be IMO. This time next year, he'll be 27 as well.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
At 6, we really need a legitimate third lineout jumper. If not Finau, then Suafoa, Dunshea and Hannah are guys with the desired dimensions.
Wait… When you say this, are you referring to them being possible options for the All Blacks at 6? Or just line out options in their preferred positions? Really need some clarity on this
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Just on Rieko and his “limited” distribution - I’ll need to go and rewatch a heap of games, but feel like I can count on one finger the number of times where he’s received the ball in space and had the option to go himself or put someone into space. Just seems like it’s crash ball every time, and I put that down to gameplay and Jordie more than Rieko’s limitations
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
Just on Rieko and his “limited” distribution - I’ll need to go and rewatch a heap of games, but feel like I can count on one finger the number of times where he’s received the ball in space and had the option to go himself or put someone into space. Just seems like it’s crash ball every time, and I put that down to gameplay and Jordie more than Rieko’s limitations
Agreed.
Jordie aint a crash hot passer.
He's like an unco' giraffe.
And that's what we have in the midfield right now, two physically gifted players or aren't natural distributors (aaaah for the days of Nonu) -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
At 6, we really need a legitimate third lineout jumper. If not Finau, then Suafoa, Dunshea and Hannah are guys with the desired dimensions.
Wait… When you say this, are you referring to them being possible options for the All Blacks at 6? Or just line out options in their preferred positions? Really need some clarity on this
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@Landers92 Just guys with the desired size.
@Chris-B Considering Hannah is built like a street light, you can put a scratch through him right now. Dunshea, as you suggested the athleticism isn’t near where it needs to be.
Only one would be Suafoa, but in my opinion he is way off being an international 6. I would have Oli Haig and Devan Flanders before all of the above. 6’s dont have to be extremely tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino.
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@Chris-B Considering Hannah is built like a street light, you can put a scratch through him right now. Dunshea, as you suggested the athleticism isn’t near where it needs to be.
Only one would be Suafoa, but in my opinion he is way off being an international 6. I would have Oli Haig and Devan Flanders before all of the above. 6’s dont have to be extremely tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino.
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
6’s dont have to be tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino
Kaino was 6'5, and just as importantly, was joined in the loose by one Kieran Read, who was 6'4
I see Ardie is generously listed at 6'2
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@Chris-B Considering Hannah is built like a street light, you can put a scratch through him right now. Dunshea, as you suggested the athleticism isn’t near where it needs to be.
Only one would be Suafoa, but in my opinion he is way off being an international 6. I would have Oli Haig and Devan Flanders before all of the above. 6’s dont have to be extremely tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino.
@Landers92 Kaino was a tall 6 - listed at 1.96 metres and I reckon that's about right.
Remember they used him at lock against Ireland. And he played with Read who was a tall 8 and an excellent jumper.
Frizell was similar height to Kaino and played lock for the landers.
If we are going to persist with Ardie at 8 then I reckon a tall 6 is almost a necessity.
However, I don't really disagree with you.
They will persist with Finau and bodge through with Blackadder and Jacobsen - and then Frizell will come back next year.
Finau will come right and be the long term future.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
6’s dont have to be tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino
Kaino was 6'5, and just as importantly, was joined in the loose by one Kieran Read, who was 6'4
I see Ardie is generously listed at 6'2
@mariner4life Snap!
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
Just on Rieko and his “limited” distribution - I’ll need to go and rewatch a heap of games, but feel like I can count on one finger the number of times where he’s received the ball in space and had the option to go himself or put someone into space. Just seems like it’s crash ball every time, and I put that down to gameplay and Jordie more than Rieko’s limitations
Agreed.
Jordie aint a crash hot passer.
He's like an unco' giraffe.
And that's what we have in the midfield right now, two physically gifted players or aren't natural distributors (aaaah for the days of Nonu)@Frank said in All Blacks 2024:
aaaah for the days of Nonu
he learned distribution too - he was not a natural at all. Started on the wing for the ABs I think -against Ireland in Ireland I think?
Incredible transformation; his monster miss on BOD in Hamilton had folk saying 'never again' for the ABs. Go figure.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
6’s dont have to be tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino
Kaino was 6'5, and just as importantly, was joined in the loose by one Kieran Read, who was 6'4
I see Ardie is generously listed at 6'2
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
6’s dont have to be tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino
Kaino was 6'5, and just as importantly, was joined in the loose by one Kieran Read, who was 6'4
I see Ardie is generously listed at 6'2
He must have been standing in a hole when these pictures were taken then….
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@Landers92 Kaino was a tall 6 - listed at 1.96 metres and I reckon that's about right.
Remember they used him at lock against Ireland. And he played with Read who was a tall 8 and an excellent jumper.
Frizell was similar height to Kaino and played lock for the landers.
If we are going to persist with Ardie at 8 then I reckon a tall 6 is almost a necessity.
However, I don't really disagree with you.
They will persist with Finau and bodge through with Blackadder and Jacobsen - and then Frizell will come back next year.
Finau will come right and be the long term future.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Landers92 Kaino was a tall 6 - listed at 1.96 metres and I reckon that's about right.
Remember they used him at lock against Ireland. And he played with Read who was a tall 8 and an excellent jumper.
.
was that really necessary mate?
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@Landers92 Kaino was a tall 6 - listed at 1.96 metres and I reckon that's about right.
Remember they used him at lock against Ireland. And he played with Read who was a tall 8 and an excellent jumper.
Frizell was similar height to Kaino and played lock for the landers.
If we are going to persist with Ardie at 8 then I reckon a tall 6 is almost a necessity.
However, I don't really disagree with you.
They will persist with Finau and bodge through with Blackadder and Jacobsen - and then Frizell will come back next year.
Finau will come right and be the long term future.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Frizell was similar height to Kaino and played lock for the landers.
*covered lock a handfull of times, +95% of the time was 6,think he played lock for Ta$man more
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Just on Rieko and his “limited” distribution - I’ll need to go and rewatch a heap of games, but feel like I can count on one finger the number of times where he’s received the ball in space and had the option to go himself or put someone into space. Just seems like it’s crash ball every time, and I put that down to gameplay and Jordie more than Rieko’s limitations
@voodoo and let's not forget he is playing in an era where our coaches are yet to consistently devise plans to deal with the rush defence, meaning he isn't getting the ball in space or even much opportunity to create it.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
6’s dont have to be tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino
Kaino was 6'5, and just as importantly, was joined in the loose by one Kieran Read, who was 6'4
I see Ardie is generously listed at 6'2
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
6’s dont have to be tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino
Kaino was 6'5, and just as importantly, was joined in the loose by one Kieran Read, who was 6'4
I see Ardie is generously listed at 6'2
And I think both were excellent lifters too.
You really want your top 6 playing there week in, week out in Super rugby.
I cannot believe I'm writing this, but I think Grace would be the player I'd have there if I can't pick Ioane and Finau isn't ready.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
6’s dont have to be tall timber, just a solid lineout option, eg Kaino
Kaino was 6'5, and just as importantly, was joined in the loose by one Kieran Read, who was 6'4
I see Ardie is generously listed at 6'2
And I think both were excellent lifters too.
You really want your top 6 playing there week in, week out in Super rugby.
I cannot believe I'm writing this, but I think Grace would be the player I'd have there if I can't pick Ioane and Finau isn't ready.
